In this episode, we dive into part two of the baby reflux series with Emily Swann, a nurse and International Board Certified Lactation Consultant (IBCLC). Emily shares her personal journey as a mom navigating silent reflux with her daughter and how it inspired her to integrate holistic practices like bodywork and nutrition into her approach to infant health. We discuss practical tips for addressing posture, movement, and environment to support babies with reflux and empower parents to take a proactive role in their baby’s healing. This episode is a great listen whether you’re dealing with reflux, colic, or just want to learn how to support your baby’s well-being naturally!
Emily Swann is a wife, mother, nurse and Internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant. What started out as a career as a NICU nurse quickly turned into a love for holistic wellness outside the hospital system and her passion is helping women and babies breastfeed through holistic lactation work. Emily incorporates bodywork and nutrition as key pillars for infant health and looks at the dyad of mother and baby as one rather than two separate parts.
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[00:00:00] Amanda Montalvo: We have part two of our baby reflux series today. I am interviewing Emily Swann. Emily is a wife, mother, nurse, and internationally board certified lactation consultant. She has worked with maternal and infant health for a decade now, and she’s just as passionate today. about it today as she was when she first started.
And she’ll talk a bit about her journey with that in the episode. I love her story and how she got into it. What really started out as a career in the NICU quickly turned into a love for holistic wellness outside of the hospital system. And that’s where her passion for helping women and babies breastfeed through holistic breastfeeding.
Lactation work really kind of bloomed. She incorporates body work and nutrition as key pillars for infant health. And over the years, she’s learned more and more about the dyad, the mother, baby dyad, and the importance of looking at them as one rather than two separate parts, which I personally really love and appreciate.
She loves her work, her family, and their little homestead very much. She hopes to continue this work for many, many years. We talked about a lot in this episode, it’s more focused on body work positioning, posture, and the environment when it comes to baby reflux, which I feel like is, it’s foundational, no matter what root cause your baby has, you have to address the physical and the environmental.
And like the, you know, what kind of stressors are present, things like that. Are they getting outside, getting sunlight? So she has a lot of very practical, simple things. And sometimes when we have such a stressful and. Calm. So reflux can be really complex in babies. It’s not always super straightforward that can lead to feeling like these tiny changes aren’t worth it.
At least for like a lot of the moms that I’ve had conversations with, I’m like, what are you getting outside? Are you getting in the sun? Is your baby in the grass? Like. Really little basic things was like, I, I don’t even feel like I have the capacity to, to think about any of that stuff because I’m so stressed out.
And so that’s where it can be so helpful to start there. So if you are someone that’s in that kind of season where you’re like, it’s so hard, I haven’t even thought about those things. I would really, really challenge you to. Listen to the full episode and hopefully, and it will encourage you to get outside, work on having fun, making things fun, even when it can, you can be in a really, really hard season.
And then if you haven’t listened to my episode with Therese, that was last week where we talked about all the different possible root causes, and it’s very in depth. There’s a handout and everything. That’s more of like the different root causes. And then this week is more of like, here’s something that we all need.
And I mean, honestly, any baby needs to work on, they’re having good movement and posture and function. So it, any baby that’s going to apply to, but I know there are a lot of moms that have followed me with my reflux journey with my second daughter, Amaya. So I would say if you’re like, I don’t know if this applies to me.
It does. It definitely does. But if you’re still trying to get down to the root cause of your baby’s reflux, then the last episode is going to be a very important listen as well. So I hope you guys enjoy this. I love talking to Emily. I love her approach when it comes to addressing issues with babies and moms.
And it’s just, I love that she’s like empowers moms to take their baby’s health into their own hands. Obviously you need outside help when you need it. But having that very strong, like home base and safety there, I think is just so, so powerful and can reduce a lot of stress when you’re going through something challenging like baby reflux.
So I hope you enjoyed the episode and give Emily a follow. I shared all her socials, check out her course. I’ve linked it in the show notes below. And all in her Instagram is amazing. I’ve linked to a lot of her videos that I like as well. It’s that have. Tutorials teaching you how to work on infant dynamic movement with your baby.
Thank you for being here, Emily. I’m so excited to chat on this topic. Something that has had a huge impact on my family and I’m very excited to share with others. Can you talk about your personal experience with baby reflux with your first child? Like, and what do you think was the possible root cause of your baby’s
[00:04:12] Emily Swann: Yeah. So, yeah, it’s definitely, I’m so happy to be here, by the way. Thank you for me on , funny enough, like as a total aside, when I was considering not being vegan anymore, your podcast was like the one I was listening to, I was like downloading a bunch of information, trying to discern if that was the right choice for us.
So, yeah, it just feels
[00:04:31] Amanda Montalvo: Yay. Happy to be part of that.
[00:04:35] Emily Swann: But yes, I had my daughter and it actually goes with that, I should say, because I was vegan when I was pregnant and I was so sick. I threw up like constantly every day for nine months. And my mom was super sick when she was pregnant with all three of her pregnancies, but I would hardly call my mom like the picture of nutritional health.
And so, Like, it’s one of those things where I grew up hearing this information and downloading this information that, like, women in my family just get really sick when they’re pregnant and there’s nothing you can do about that. But also, there was no, like, discussion of, like, mitigating factors. So, I had my daughter and it was almost felt like I just, like, the stress of my pregnancy was also the stress of the newborn time.
She was very unsettled. I didn’t have the language at that time for what would be called now silent reflux. That’s what it’s called for babies. And this, I want to be very clear before we get into the topic, that silent reflux in babies is very different than babies that spit up. So a baby that spits up and does not scream and goes about their day, that’s not silent reflux.
And even though there’s probably things you can do to like mitigate that, That’s not like the moms that are like struggling with silent reflux is a completely different situation. These babies scream. They are unsettled. They are uncomfortable. They usually spit up and then immediately swallow it back.
And so it burns. And so they just are very unsettled baby. So that’s what my daughter was. She also had a really hard time nursing. I was a labor and delivery nurse at the time. And so, to me, it felt very. Like confusing why I was having such a hard time latching her, why I had such a hard birth and why I had such a hard time breastfeeding her.
I felt like almost this victim mindset of like, it’s so unfair. I thought I was prepared. Like I felt more prepared than other first time moms. And yet it was impossible. But I did have a calling to only breastfeed. I felt very strongly like breastfeeding was. Going to be what was best for our family.
So I just kind of persevered through that and I’m glad I did because. Not only did we end up breastfeeding, of course, but that was where I was able to learn. And so I started being more open to, like, what’s going on with her? What is she trying to show me? What, what is coming up in this, like, big motherhood journey, this big transformation from a young woman to, like, a mature motherly woman?
Like, there is obviously something there. And so what I did was I started doing what I think most people do in that situation is I started doing a lot of research. I started getting into a lot of mom’s groups and then I took it one step further and I said, I’m going to become an internationally board certified lactation consultant because.
To me, it was almost like I didn’t even really want to be a lactation consultant. I almost just felt like, well, the hours would be easy since I’m a nurse. And then I could figure out what’s going on with my daughter. And so I did that. And it was funny. As I was in my training of becoming an IBCLC, I started to, and I had seen lots of lactation consultants with her.
I’d started to feel like maybe The issue is not so much breastfeeding itself, like the actual anatomy of my breast tissue and her oral function. And the actual act of transferring milk didn’t seem like that was the issue, but I didn’t fully have the language or the like ability to conceptualize. Well, like then what is the issue?
And so she was about six months at that time when I became a lactation consultant. And she, she was breastfeeding, but she also was screaming a lot. We never went in the car because it was so traumatizing. I actually, I had worked at the rock climbing gym near us just for like a decade just for fun.
And as I, after I became a nurse, I wanted to still coach one. Class. Cause I enjoyed it. And I was like, Oh, I’ll just bring her. I’ll just baby wear her and just go rock climbing. It’ll be so much fun. And then she’ll grow up in the rock climbing gym. When I say that one day I called on my way to work and like, I’d worked there for a decade and I just quit with no notice because she was screaming so much in the car.
I was like, Oh, I’m, I’m actually not working there anymore. I’m not coming today. I’m anymore. I had a class, like I had kids that were expecting me to like, I mean, there were other adults there, but like. I just was so, I was falling apart because of the crying and I was so dysregulated and she was so dysregulated.
And I just, I came home, my husband was like, did you quit your job? Like you didn’t warn them or give a two weeks notice, nothing. So, I eventually apologized, but it’s just, it just goes to show how powerful it is, that level of crying.
[00:09:38] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah.
[00:09:39] Emily Swann: and so it’s interesting. So I, at that point she was on, I can’t ever remember.
I would have to look it up what the actual name of the medicine was. But we were in very much a transition where we were still seeing a pediatrician, they had suggested putting her on essentially like an anti reflux medicine. I didn’t ask,
[00:09:58] Amanda Montalvo: Omeprazole?
[00:09:59] Emily Swann: it wasn’t a meprazole. I want to say it was pepsin. They’re all very similar.
They all block nutrients. They all are like shockingly dangerous for babies. But like, I was in such a place of like. Any help, any help, any help. And I also hadn’t started to like flex that tool as a mother where you like discern and make decisions for your babies, like I just was lost. And so she was on the medication and it did help a little, which is you know, good, I guess, but like.
That’s a band aid, you know, and what I didn’t realize is when I went back to the pediatrician for our next appointment. I had said Like what’s the plan with the medication and they said? Oh, well, you know if she stays on it much longer We’re gonna have to do an endoscopy to figure out what’s going on.
And that is when I had that first big red flag I was like you want to do a surgery on my baby? Like we haven’t Where did that, like, we haven’t done anything yet. And so that I stopped immediately taking the medication. Cause that was when I started like doing some research and it just aligned so well, my journey with her and my practice that I developed, I mean, she was like my Guinea pig, of course.
So like, of course it aligned well, but like, I started seeing babies as a lactation consultant and feeling very handicapped, feeling very like unable to help them. Latch adjustments and like pumping and SNS and I was like These are all band aids, you know, it’s exactly what I was given with Soli. And I had stopped the medication.
So she was crying a lot again. And I started to just say like, what can I do with her body to support her body? And so I started kind of doing some more holistic, you know, taking her outside more. We lived in like a small townhouse. So it was a lot of extra effort to go outside. Taking her outside more, like just trying to be more intentional about stuff like that.
And around that time is when I took the Gillespie CFT course. Because I just felt like maybe that would help. I just, it was really like a shot in the dark. And what’s interesting is around when I took the CFT course, She was getting a little bigger and I started noticing just like her body which I thought was so interesting at the time, like, and then I started noticing every, like, almost one year old’s body.
Like, I just couldn’t stop paying attention to, like, how they lived and how they existed and how they played. And it started to become very clear to me that my daughter, even though she was struggling, really wanted to be healthy. And I started to think about just generally kids, like, of course they do. Of course they want that.
They are closer than we are to their biology. They are closer to that kind of foundational mammalian, you know, biology. And so, of course, they want that and, like, they are trying to tell us something, but, like, they don’t have the words for it. And so, things like, for example, you know, if you’ve ever taken your toddler to the playground and they want to climb up the slide instead of going down it.
So, if you think about a toddler going down a slide, they’re closing off, they’re, like, hunching their shoulders, they’re bracing. But when they’re climbing up something, they lower that curve in their back. They get strong in the legs and they widen their hands. And so they’re making this very like strong, sturdy, wide base.
And I was like in my head and you know, and I’m kind of a type B parent anyway. So like my daughter climbing up the slide has never bothered me, although it bothers other parents at the park. And so I just have always let her do it, but I started noticing her like body when she would do it. And so ultimately I started just kind of manipulating her body sometimes, like anything that she wanted to do, I just took it and we did it like a step further.
So she wanted to go upside down. And so I would take her on the yoga ball and I would roll her back and forth upside down. And then she would sleep a little better. And I was like, Hmm, that’s interesting. Cause she had never slept good. Like how could a baby, if you have a baby with silent reflex, you know, they don’t sleep well, they don’t want to lay down.
So she started sleeping better. We’d go outside and she would want to hang from the tree and I would hold her legs. So, and then she would sleep better. It was like the craziest thing. And I remember the first day. That I did like what I now have as my practice like my body work practice Just these like simple things like I like lifted her butt up high.
I let her arch back I created lots of space in her ribs. I just did some like fun playful stuff with her and we went to the pool Which the pool I wouldn’t necessarily cause like a healing thing, but she loved the pool So I took her to the pool and we came back and she took her first two hour nap that she had ever taken in her life And her mouth was closed.
And so she was like a little over one at this point, her mouth was closed and she was so long and I have the picture and I share, yes, I share it on Instagram all the time because I wish that like people could understand that at this point I had been watching her body for six months and I was learning and investigating and there’s a little bit of research out there, a little bit of like woo woo kind of intuitive.
research about this, but it makes sense to me. That like anything we can do to get babies closer to their biology would be good for them. So like that was kind of downloading with me, but I’d been watching her for six months and that is the first day that she completely opened up. Like, and so of course it aligned with a two hour nap.
Of course it aligned with like no temper tantrums that afternoon. Like she woke up, She ate, she played, like it was just, I was like in awe. Like, I was like, this is a different kid. I will say around that time is when we also stopped being vegan and started transitioning and like I said, I was listening to your podcast and we were getting a lot of information.
And the first, my husband, we were very much vegan for the animals. We felt very like convicted to like animal rights. And we, of course we still do. No one hates animals. Like looks different. But I had told him like, Hey, I’m vegan. I’m on this journey. I think we’re going to start eating meat. And he said, you know, I’m not ready for that, but he had to go out of town.
And so I bought Zola and I ground beef. I was like, we’re just going to give it a go. I had been vegan for like six years. I was like, we’re just going to make ground beef and see what happens. And when I tell you that this girl ate an entire, like she was like with her hands, like just shoveling ground beef into her mouth.
I was like, oh my God,
[00:16:43] Amanda Montalvo: All my kids eat are meat, so I can like only imagine if they didn’t get it until that age.
[00:16:47] Emily Swann: I mean, truly, I was like, Oh my God, like the mom guilt and the shame. But like, then it’s like, okay, let’s take a step back. We’re just learning information. It’s okay. But like, at the same time, I was like, this girl needs whatever is in this mean, whatever’s in here, I don’t really know. I’m not, I’m still learning, but like, he needs that.
So it was so fascinating. And like, so we were on this huge journey and it was so cool. Like, I wish, you know, it’s so hard when you’re a mom and you’re in something challenging. That’s so hard because it sucks the life out of motherhood. It makes it unfun. But if we could find a way to take a step back and look at these things as opportunities for our family to really grow and really make big changes and thrive and like the power of a confident mother after walking through something like that is so strong.
And so we walk out of it And like here we are and like my her teeth started widening her face started widening her rib cage started expanding so Essentially, that’s how I made my practice. I just took what was happening with her and I just like encouraged it So like we want a wider rib cage like let’s do that.
Let’s do something I can put my hands on you and help encourage kind of like with yoga Where like they’ll like give you a physical input to help you change your body You it’s just like that. So it’s like, I’m like, okay, you want your ribs to be wider. I can see that I’m watching you. Like, let’s do that.
You want your like hips to be wider. Let’s do that. You want your feet to be like splayed and flat. Like, let’s do that. So it was just so cool. And essentially what happened in a nutshell was I like unraveled my daughter and she’s still totally a work in progress because. That’s a whole pregnancy and a year of just like potentially not the best stuff for her, but it’s phenomenal to see her nowadays.
And she’s such a good barometer of like where we’re at because we went out of town and she was snoring because we’re in this big city and like not eating the food and not being barefoot. Like. So she was snoring, and then as soon as we got back, the snoring stops. And it’s like, so fascinating to me to like, use her as a gauge, but she truly has like, blossomed into the fullest version of herself, and I’m so thankful, because I really, I just was able, I don’t know how I got lucky enough to do this because I do think it’s hard for moms to just sit back and say like, what is she trying to show me?
She’s trying to show me something. And then I did the education and the like, you know, work afterwards as a clinician to like learn the language and the physical movements. But at the same time, I think just the intuition of learning from her was just as powerful. So that’s kind of our story in a nutshell.
[00:19:45] Amanda Montalvo: Can you just quickly define like what CFT is? Like, cause I don’t think everyone knows.
[00:19:50] Emily Swann: Yeah, so craniosacral fascial therapy is a body work modality. It is, there is a one provider, I think, that teaches it. His name is Dr. Gillespie. It’s very similar to what is called craniosacral therapy. And I think that both craniosacral, Craniosacral fascial therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, all of these things are good.
Like, we have, as a society, like, decontextualized things, taken stuff out of context, you know, we’ll, like, we’ll do this thing as moms where, like, we’ll go see a provider and not get this immediate result that we’re looking for, and so then we say, well, that thing is bad, or that thing doesn’t work. And so my point in saying all that is, I’ve studied a bunch of Like modalities.
I took a lot of infant massage when I worked in the NICU, I did the CFT. And ultimately what I found is that there are pieces of everything that I like, and then pieces of everything that I don’t care for. And that’s just me personally. And then there are probably people that have taken my course and been like, I like this piece and I don’t like that piece.
And that is totally how it should be. But I do think that if your baby is struggling with something, anything helps. Chiropractor, PT, CFT, OT, anything is going to be helpful, but it’s not going to fix it because that only can be from mom. Like only a mom cleaning up the energy in the environment and doing that work is going to quote, fix a baby.
However, I do think anything is helpful. So like, if you need to start somewhere, CFT, CST, OT, chiropractor, speech, any of those things, or IBCLCs, any of that’s going to be helpful.
[00:21:31] Amanda Montalvo: I feel like the IBCLC, and I was talking about this with Therese on the last podcast episode, is it’s a helpful guide because I think it’s to get someone’s outside perspective that is constantly, especially if it’s like a breastfeeding issue or like oral restrictions or something, reflux, it can be really helpful to get someone that’s seen something that Maybe similar a bunch of times and been like, listen, this is what I’ve seen people do here.
The areas you want to consider working on if you find a good one, obviously, but this, I mean, I’ve been incredibly impressed with, like, the amount of people out there that are really knowledgeable. IBCLC is like, even just locally to me, and I live. I don’t live near like a big city or anything. I’m in like middle of nowhere and it’s not middle of nowhere, Rayford, it’s like near a military base.
But it’s like, it’s not a cool place to live, you know, like I’m not like in some cool town. So I was shocked. I was like, wow, that’s really cool. I think it can helpful to have a guide so that you can get some of that information from, cause it can be very overwhelming. I mean, obviously now you can learn from people online as well.
That’s like what the goal of these two podcasts episodes are so that you can get all the good information, all the good resources, and then. You can figure out what makes the most sense for your family. And I just want to reiterate, cause we’re going to get into like, what is. Dynamic infant movement next, which is really like what you’re kind of describing of like kind of what came to creation with working with your daughter solely basically like, and I talked about this with trace a little bit, the reason why a lot of stuff doesn’t work, I think is because it’s, it’s like a one and done.
Right. It’s like you, you go to a chiropractor. I mean, we took my daughter when my older daughter, when she had like oral restrictions and we had breastfeeding issues, like we did all the things, right. I also did the CFT training to try to figure out how to fix, right. We want to fix it. You want to fix it.
But it’s like, you, again, It just like on our own healing journey, if we’re dealing with a health issue, it’s like, what is the symptom trying to tell us? What is your body trying to tell us? What is your baby’s body trying to tell you? What is going on in this situation? Life stressors, all those kinds of things.
They’re so important. And like, Ultimately, like one Cairo visit. I’ve had this conversation. I’ve had a lot of friends have babies recently. So I feel like all I’ve had is this conversation over and over. It’s like, but I went and saw this person. I’m like, okay, but if you’re not doing it at home, it’s going to all unravel, right?
If you’re going to go right back to where you were, especially like if you had a hard birth, a hard pregnancy. So baby breach the whole time, you know, were they able to move well? And then, you know, what’s that initial postpartum look like for you? Is it super stressful? Do you have any help or do you have no help?
Like, are you a single mom? Like all those things are going to affect it. And I think people want it to be very clear cut black and white of like, exactly what do I do? What caused this, but ultimately like, it’s going to be nuanced and it’s going to be different for each family. But I think mom becoming really empowered and educated and sometimes it’s hard.
It’s like, why does it always have to be all on me? Well, But I would switch that mindset of being like, you are the one they need. You are it. You can, you can learn stuff from outside sources. That’s what I did. I really enjoyed your course. I obviously went through the CFT program. I, you know, Took what I loved, left what I didn’t, just like you mentioned.
And we’ve, it’s like, we’ve done so many different kinds of stuff with the girls and ultimately what works the best, whatever we do at home, whatever we work into our routine, figuring out a dynamic that worked between me and my husband with working and stuff, like all those things are going to impact it.
And I just think we want to outsource that always like fix, I need to bring them to this, to fix this. And sometimes we really do need help. Like speech therapy or myofunctional therapy, whatever it might be. It doesn’t mean you do it all on your own, but I think we have to take a lot of that responsibility because our kids need us to, and it usually ends up being easier, like ultimately not driving around to a bunch of appointments with a brand new baby.
Right. That’s a nightmare,
[00:25:18] Emily Swann: that’s
[00:25:18] Amanda Montalvo: if they have reflux, like all that stuff, it usually ends up being easier than we thought it was going to be. So I just want to, it’s a little bit of encouragement for like, that’s kind of the frame that this. And the goal is that we really empower all the moms listening to kind of take it into their own hands, get curious about their kids.
And we’ll have a bunch of resources to go along with that, but let’s talk about like, what is dynamic infant movement? Like, I think that is probably what people need to understand the most.
[00:25:47] Emily Swann: that’s the name of my course for the people just hearing about it. The dynamic infant movement for breastfeeding and beyond. It covers kids zero to three because there’s a lot more than just breastfeeding issues. But I mean, generally speaking, If you’re a three year old is needing the course, like circle back to what their breastfeeding was like, cause I’m sure it was either not good or they had trouble or they didn’t breastfeed at all.
But yeah, I mean the dynamic infant movement, so dynamic, the ability to like move and be adaptable and be like energetic, so when I think about kids. I like to picture young kids that 0 to 3 in that kind of smiley, bouncy, energetic kind of personality, if you know what I’m thinking about. Unfortunately, like I said, when I started watching my daughter and I would take her to the playground, I would see these other kids and I was like, why am I not getting that from them?
Like, just kind of closed off, like. I don’t know how to describe it. Maybe like reserved and that’s not to say like, there aren’t like personality traits. Like I, my new baby, my son, who’s one is more shy than solely like he’ll much prefer to like, be a little near me, but like, then go play. So it’s like, what is it about our kids?
We’re like, the vitality and the dynamism is kind of like, being such out of them. And there’s so many factors. That are number one, not our control. Some of them are in our control as mothers. But like ultimately My goal was to create this simple set of movements to encourage that kind of dynamic energetic Really is it to encourage this new posture in your kids?
So my whole mission my husband sometimes laughs at me because he’ll be like You know, it’s 2024, right? But like, my whole mission is to try and do the best we can to live closer to our biology as our ancestors did well, obviously enjoying modern things, you know, so it’s like, I’m not saying we like, totally go back to like living in caves, but at the same time, our babies really desperately need this ability to integrate our biology.
So what does that look like? Essentially in like a very clear way, babies should represent this certain posture. So when they come out of the womb, so their very first day here what quote they should do, and now I’m not going to, Say there aren’t variations of normal. I’m a big believer in breech being a variation of normal and twins.
And so, you know, just like work with me here. Let’s not be so black and white, but like essentially what they’re supposed to do is this whale like movement. So they’re supposed to come out facing your butt and whale up. So there’s like open kind of awakening. That is the like physiology of a birth. However, so many births don’t do that now.
My daughter was a vacuum, so she doesn’t get that, C section babies aren’t getting that you know, OP babies, babies facing the other way, breech babies, so there’s just a multitude of things that, like, have now prohibited that from happening, so, like, that’s our first kind of, like, tick against the baby.
Then, they come out, and what is the very first thing we do to babies? We swaddle them, and so while they’re supposed to come out and now, like, be exploring, like, have you ever seen a baby calf, like, come out and they’re kind of walking and, like, their legs fall and then they get up? So that’s, like, what a baby’s supposed to be doing.
They’re exploring their body. They’re new. They’re not in the water anymore. They’re, like, testing what to push and pull against, and they’re creating that dynamism, that movement, but we don’t let them do that. We do the swaddle. Then we put them in the car seat to bring them home. And then we get home and we swaddle them again.
And then we put them in the mama roo so that they don’t cry. And then we pick them up to feed them, but we swaddle them so that they aren’t like putting their hands up by their mouth. I mean, I can’t tell you how many moms I see. In office that are like, well, their hands get in their mouth. It’s like, okay, well, maybe they’re supposed to be there.
I don’t know. You know, like, let’s, let’s kind of unpack that.
[00:29:49] Amanda Montalvo: you breastfeed a swal a swaddled baby is what I want to know.
[00:29:53] Emily Swann: I mean,
[00:29:53] Amanda Montalvo: Is that even possible?
[00:29:55] Emily Swann: you’d be surprised. I mean, I mean, at the hospital, that’s what they do. They swaddle them and then they actually, I think they’re getting better. I don’t want to speak so negatively about the hospital. I do think they’re getting better about, like, at least putting babies naked skin to skin on mom for
[00:30:07] Amanda Montalvo: Okay, that’s good.
[00:30:08] Emily Swann: I hope so. But it is interesting just so if you think about like, how their movement should be like developing versus what we’re doing to them. And so then if we’re going to really get into. Like the kind of no nos like one of the ones that like is a killer is like the bumbo seat that like holds their legs or any sort of thing that you set them in where their feet are hanging down, which number one is they’ve like the research shows that’s not safe for their hips.
But number two, it’s like, they’re not doing the movements. Like they’re not kicking their feet and rolling and crawling and like. Arching and doing all this movement that they’re supposed to be doing. So wherever we can like intervene. So either day one, we get this good information and we start, you know, doing some of these good practices or even like two years old, wherever we can intervene is going to have some benefit.
And the point is to try and encourage. This low curve in their posture. So like, instead of them being rounded up here, up on their shoulders, we want them to be like open in their belly. So like a big, if you’ve seen like a toddler with like a big belly, you want them just to like hang that belly out, let that belly relax, which would mean that their lower back then is kind of has this anterior tilt where the belly is able to lean forward.
And then you want the ribs to be very full because that’s part of their base. So like, instead of like scrunching, so then they would scrunch their belly. You want the ribs to be full and the belly to hang soft. So then the other base they need would be like their trunk. So flat feet. Facing forward we have a pretty severe like toe walking inward curling feet kind of pandemic from epidemic from Like the seats and all the stuff and so we want forward facing flat feet and then a wide base So like butts wide butts high like anything that would be like a wide full body Then the last thing that i’m really encouraging with the babies is chins off the chest Which if you think about just swaddling, for example, I’m not picking on swaddling, but I’m just using it as an example.
Their chins are on their chest because we have put them like that. How are babies going to breastfeed if they cannot lengthen their chin off their chest? They need to be able to lengthen their neck like they should be able to go meet breast tissue. You know, so often we feel as moms with the like bad information and societal conditioning at this point.
To like shove our boob in our baby’s mouth to get a good latch. Like every mom does it. It’s like this kind of knee jerk reaction to shove the boob in there. A baby should, even as a newborn, be able to lengthen their neck to reach your breast. Not from, like, across the room, but, like, if you’re holding them, you know?
And, so, If they can’t do that, then we’re wondering why. If they can’t breastfeed, if they can’t lift and lengthen their neck and then move their lower jaw forward to meet breast tissue, why? So that is a vital sign for babies. Just like breathing and temperature regulation, that is a vital sign that tells us, how is your baby doing?
If they can’t do that, No need to feel shameful about it. No need to feel like upset. Let’s just take it as information and start looking at their posture, start looking at their movement and wonder where we can make these micro adjustments to really encourage that. And the good news is that I always tell moms, I feel like this is like the best news is that babies are so adaptable.
Like they really want to feel good. They want to be healthy. So like, So often in my course the earlier the babies come in like if I have a newborn join the course It’s like within a couple days. There’s like huge changes. They feel so much better. It’s so like obvious Sometimes with the like two year olds, there’s some more time or like the eight month age I feel like it could take a couple weeks of like really encouraging that posture really doing the movement every day But for the most part, I mean there will be Some massive like adjustments right away, and I think my favorite one I always tell people like my course is not about sleep really it’s about like breastfeeding and foundational movement But like you can’t help but get better sleep when you feel better So the like all the time I get these videos or pictures of babies And they’re like asleep with their arms up and the mom’s like they have never slept like this before You know, which is so cool because we just feel so much better when we see our babies living this, like, you can just tell that they feel so good.
So then we feel so good as their mom, cause we’re so connected to them. But yeah, so essentially the goal is to change the posture of the baby. So that is the whole goal of my course. Like Amanda said I just feel really passionately that like, The work needs to be done at home. Like I love the chiropractor.
We love a trip to the chiropractor every once in a while, but we live 45 minutes out of the city. Like I’m not going to the chiropractor twice a week, which is probably what a baby would need. If they, if you
[00:35:11] Amanda Montalvo: Even more sometimes,
[00:35:12] Emily Swann: yeah. If you were using that as like your main tool, that’s fine, but then you need to commit the time to doing it.
And same thing is when I would see. Babies in my office and I would see them every two weeks. I was like, I’m sorry, But like you’re lighting your money on fire like you either come see me every Like other day or you learn how to do this and it’s not hard, you know um but I think it’s like you said it’s like Those things are such useful tools like I and i’ve seen like a homeopathy specialist one time for something So I had this weird rash like it’s okay to outsource and like get gather tools and gather information But I really believe the energy and the like regulation and the healing of the home comes from the mother.
Like you said, like it totally has to, we created them. So how are we not also going to then bring them into this healing and like totally to reinforce this message we’ve been driving home. It’s like, that is a good thing. I know it can feel really stressful. Amanda and I have both had reflux babies. We know.
They are crying and it is stressful and that is hard, but it’s also so powerful to come out of that. And then even, I know that it was your 2nd baby that had the reflux, but the healing power of the next baby that then, like, you do prep work so that that doesn’t happen again. Like, my 2nd baby was like, I was like, you are.
I mean, it was like so healing to see him. Yes. He’s so peaceful and so like in his body. And so it’s like stuff like that. It’s like, okay. I totally see why Sully and I went through that experience together. Like that was really important for us to have.
[00:36:56] Amanda Montalvo: And just, and like, obviously we’re, don’t take it as like, it’s all on you. Cause if you don’t have good capacity right now, which is what a baby, what, what a reflux baby will. We’ll give you, it’ll diminish all of your capacity and resources because it’s so stressful. You’re not sleeping enough. Like a lot of women are changing their diet, you know, you’re going to doctor’s appointments.
And then, you know, I had a, I had a two year old at the time. It was really hard. It was really, really hard, but it’s like you, you have to lean on other people. You have to have a good support system. It doesn’t mean you do everything all by yourself. It means that you know how to communicate your needs to other people, you know, like just be like a solid, like stable human being.
But I think it can be very difficult to like hear all of this. And I know that that’ll be hard for some moms, but I’m like, you have it, you’ve got the thing, you have the ability to do it. There’s resources out there, literally the, the episode I did before this, if you did not listen, we go through all the possible root causes of reflux.
And then this episode, we’re diving into the physical part that yes, it’s for reflux, but ultimately like when everyone in my life that has baby, they’re like, Or pregnant, what, what should I consider? I’m like, you have to learn how to work on your baby. Do not put them in containers. It like avoid it as I listen, I use container guys.
Like my husband’s in the military. He deployed a lot. I use a containers when I shower. I’m not, I’m not saying never use them. They, sometimes you need them. Not, not now. I would never go in one. She like Eliana didn’t mind them. I hate them. Couldn’t be less because she’s never in them. So she’s like, you’re strapping me down.
Like you think that’s happening right now? But it’s kind of cool to see the difference between the two, but it’s, I’m not saying never use them, but like, it is so easy to con it’s a crutch. It’s a crutch for people. And I’ve seen it and people that are very close to me and it breaks my heart. Cause it affected the health of the kid.
And now like, they’re the ones suffering. And it’s a whole thing now and it didn’t have to be, you know? So it’s.
[00:38:54] Emily Swann: like how much it adds up, like if you swaddle your baby, they sleep 20 hours a day in the beginning and then you’re putting them in the mamaroo in between. That’s 24 hours of a container.
[00:39:03] Amanda Montalvo: And like, sometimes you can’t like car seats. I mean, obviously you’re going to put a baby in a car seat, right? So it’s like, you have to just factor in based on your lifestyle and the way you’re living, like what is realistic for you. And if that’s a part of it, we don’t really drive a ton. So it’s not a big, like, I don’t really, I never really had to factor that in, but it’s like, I talked to a lot of moms that do.
Like they absolutely, like their kid goes to school. So they’re like, yeah, they’re in the car for at least an hour every day because of like drop off and stuff. And I’m like, that’s, that’s just good to know of like, okay. Then when they, before and after, like try to move them around, you know, so just learning what’s normal, what’s not.
It’s like, I just think a lot of women focus on like milestones and making each other, baby hits all the things. And I’m like, they’ll get there. They’re going to get there. It’s, but it’s like. I think the, there’s a missed opportunity with understanding like how you can truly help them. And again, like you mentioned, like being in your body and stuff with your son and it’s just like, it makes a big difference.
[00:40:02] Emily Swann: and even like when we focus on, I mean, it’s just like any other problem. When you focus on the problem, when you’re giving energy to the problem, then you’re just feeding it more. So like, It’s so hard, we’re totally not saying we don’t understand, but like, if you have a baby that’s colicky, refluxy, breastfeeding pretty poorly, like, you know, just all the things that lead to like the very unhappy babies, that is so hard, but sometimes it can feel good to just say like, I’m gonna gather some information.
So like, for me, it was like, I’m going to gather some information. I’m going to start making some changes. We’re going to start eating meat. I’m going to start doing this body work on her. We’re going to start going outside barefoot every day. And so then it’s like, even though nothing changed day one, I could go to sleep that night thinking I am providing a supportive environment and now I’m just going to trust that it’s going to be okay.
All we can do sometimes is provide the supportive environment. Do the right things and then sometimes take hands off like sometimes that can feel nice and just stop obsessing I mean if I could just get every mom off the mom groups and the
[00:41:05] Amanda Montalvo: When you said you got into the mom group. So I was like, no.
[00:41:08] Emily Swann: I know I had a client on Saturday. I never see in person clients anymore But she’s a friend of a friend and it was a it’s a really bad situation It’s like one of the worst I’ve seen and I was like put your phone away like I Put it away, get the scale out of here, get the phone out of here.
Like we’ve got to stop. Because like anything that’s going to make us feel worse in those situations is not going to serve us. But what will make us feel better is making these positive changes for our baby. So knowing, even if your baby cries the same amount that day, but you didn’t put them in the mamaroo or the snoo.
That is going to bed a job well done, like even if nothing changed or like, even if you laid them out in the grass for 15 minutes, they scream the whole time just knowing, okay, I did the thing and we’re providing a supportive environment and we’re going to start seeing some changes. It can feel good to just know.
And just like Amanda said, like, you know, sometimes it’s a bummer that those things fall on us, but also it’s not like, also it’s so empowering and like, I think when we can really lean into our roles, like as mothers and really, you know, cause society has honestly tried to divorce us from our role as a mother.
They’ve tried to make it muddy and confusing and like, well, do we work? Do we not work? And like, it’s not really about that or not. It’s about what is our role like at home and are we doing it the best we can while we’re there? And then if we have to work, then we work. And if we don’t work, then we don’t work.
But like, It’s all this like confusion and like the consumer baby industry have really made a point to confuse us, stress us out, like divorce us from our intuition as mothers and our biology, and when we can get closer to that and feel more connected, then, and that’s what I told this woman when I saw her, I was like, you’re homework for this week.
Is no body work. It’s no intraoral exercises. It’s no bottle work. No, your goal for this week is to connect with this baby start. She said I don’t know her cues I said well, it’s time to start learning them like and the only way you’re going to do that is if you really Tune into her and turn off the phones.
So it’s just totally a balance of taking in information, but without Like totally stressing ourselves out and like being overwhelmed. And that’s why I like what you said, an IBCLC is very much a hand holder, like it is not my job to like fix your baby, but it is my job to guide you and offer you suggestions and offer you options, like if you’re navigating a tongue tie release, like I will happily navigate, like what that looks like if you do it, what that looks like if you don’t do it and the possible goods and bads of both.
And then that is a decision for the family to make.
[00:43:51] Amanda Montalvo: We’re, we’ve already kind of covered like environments. I think it’s just like having a plan ultimately. And that’s kind of what it happens when you work with someone, they give you a plan, right? Like, they’re like, okay, this is what we’re going to do. And I think having that for yourself can be incredibly helpful and like trusting in that process, just like if you were working on your own health.
So I, I’m really happy that You said that too, with just like taking time with your baby. It’s, it’s hard. It’s really hard. So it’s like, do the research, make your plan and then. You got to step away, you know, at some point. I also can’t imagine baby crying outside when you gave that example. I was like, is that possible?
I feel like whenever, whenever we go, that’s like what we would do if we couldn’t get one of our babies to stop crying, it’s like, Oh, go outside. Let’s talk a little bit more about how can you create a healing environment at home, just to like, put it all into like, wrap it up nicely for people. You’ve kind of covered it.
And then I talked a lot about oral restrictions and how they impact reflux with Therese. So we don’t, we actually don’t have to cover that as much. I want to get into like, how can moms start doing this? Is like the goal. So let’s talk about the healing environment and then we’ll talk about how you guys can get started at home.
[00:44:59] Emily Swann: yeah. And what good steps to take? Like, I’m totally a big believer, even though I have a course that I sell. I’m totally a big believer in least invasive steps first. So environmental changes is going to be the most powerful, easiest thing for you to do, like before you start going to providers, before you start doing like whatever, buying the next like big supplement or whatever it is.
Start with some like home stuff. So things that I feel strongly could help literally any baby or child no matter what is more outside time And I think that people come to sometimes come to my page and feel Like very overwhelmed by my recommendations about these things But just know that like I come from a very soft heart And I also am a mom and I also have turned the tv on for my children before so like let’s you know but No screen time.
Anything like very overstimulating is going to make whatever the situation is magnified. So screen time, low outside time, very high for the babies. It’s going to be next to no containers, obviously. Like we, we have to drive in the car and if you have to shower and your husband is at work, then like, I feel safer putting them in something, especially when I had a toddler too, to protect the baby, put them
[00:46:13] Amanda Montalvo: yeah, it’s usually cause there’s more than one
[00:46:15] Emily Swann: Yeah, like you’re safer in here than she trying to pick you up or something. But, you know, just generally speaking the least amount of baby containers possible. I do want to make a note because I think there’s confusion that baby wearing is not a container that they are able to move their head really well.
And it’s actually considered a form of tummy time. So as long as it’s a hip safe baby wearing device, then that would be totally fine. And then the other thing that I feel really strongly about is just the foundational nutrition of the family. So, it just makes sense that if the family is eating garbage, It’s almost like, how could we expect our babies to nurse and do well and want the, like, best nutritional source for themselves if we don’t eat well?
So, there’s that component, there’s, like, toddlers eating as well. So, like, generally speaking, outside time, low screen time, low containers, and good nutrition is going to be key. A recipe for bringing your family into a more healthy, vibrant lifestyle. If you’re struggling with anything, any baby and toddler thing, in my opinion, those things could help.
[00:47:22] Amanda Montalvo: And like the other piece, if you guys have not listened to my circadian rhythm episode with Carrie Bennett, you you’ll want to get outside after you listen to that one. So if you need any motivation, listen to that one. It’s also good for your health, your hormones, your thyroid. Like gut health, digestion, everything.
So getting outside more is, is like honestly good for everyone. And I feel like a lot of people that follow me hopefully know that. So I, that one will probably be the easier, easier one. And most people want to, I think it’s also like your priorities, you know, making time to get outside shifting, looking at your day, like what’s the most convenient and sometimes just letting other things go.
Like Sometimes people, how do you get it all done? I’m like, I don’t, nothing is perfect in my house. Nothing’s perfect in my business. Like you, you can’t do it all. You know, you just have to figure out what takes priority right now. Let’s, so if someone’s like, all right, I’m going to work on those things first as far as like, Most women that I talk to, they’re, they’re scared to do any sort of body work, even massage on their babies.
Even though when you really sit down, if you’re like with them, you’re like, Oh, you’re kind of already doing this. Like I, there’s definitely an intuitive sense with a lot of this stuff. And I think that’s, what’s so cool about it is you start to learn about it and you’re like, man, this makes sense.
Really just makes sense. But a lot of them are afraid and they, and it’s comes from a good place. They don’t want to hurt their baby or do anything wrong. So what, how could a mom that doesn’t have like knowledge in the body work kind of space start to support their children?
[00:48:51] Emily Swann: Yeah. And I think that’s why I liked my course idea of putting the power back in mom’s hands. Cause we just feel like I can’t do that. That’s for a physical therapist, but it’s like, I’m not like talking negatively about physical therapists, but like they went to school for what? Like a couple years to learn, you know, it’s not like.
It’s not like, not that I think like the most highly of doctors anyway, but it’s not like eight years of medical school of like all these very specific movements that you learn. Like, it’s pretty generally speaking, a easy thing to learn how to do. You just might not learn essentially like in my course, or if you like took any sort of body work, like if you took CFT, when I took it, we didn’t understand why, like, we don’t know the cranial nerves and the like mechanics.
So it’s like, but you don’t have to like, you can just. Do the physical work and like just like if your husband gave you a massage It’s the same thing like he doesn’t have to be a professional You don’t have to be a professional on your baby And it’s very gentle with the babies. Of course, like we can of course, we’re being gentle with babies It should just very much go without saying there’s an intro in my section of the course We’re going to talk about being gentle with the babies, but you will not hurt your baby You’re their mother, you will totally keep them safe.
And if they cry, there’s like the automatic, I’m not going to continue on with this one. Like there’s a couple different like postures in each age group. So there’s like a newborn section that’s very newborn focused, very breastfeeding focused. So if you try to do maybe like the stuff on their face and they were crying, then you just don’t do it.
Like you come back and try a different day. You maybe are curious why that they don’t like that one, but like we don’t force babies to do anything that they don’t want to do. And I would just challenge moms to, Like, what would that look like if you felt really empowered as a mother? And I think that’s my favorite part of the course is the favorite part of my motherhood journey is that feeling very empowered because I have these tools to help my kids.
Like my son, Bowie, like I pretty much work on my daughter all the time every day because she’s so dynamic and she’s so like, she’s still working stuff out. But I never work on bow. And every once in a while, like right now, he’s getting like some sort of molar tooth and like, I was like, I’m going to work on him because he’s all like, dysregulated and he literally like immediately melted into me.
Like, I could tell that he was like, thank you for doing this. Like, solely always gets to do it. I never get to do it. That was like the vibe I got from him, but he. Felt so much better. And I was, he fell asleep in the car. I was able to pick him up, carry him upstairs and lay him down. And he stayed asleep.
Like he just was so relaxed. And it’s like, it feels good as a mom to be able to do that. Just like, I like, I’m sure everyone feels this way, but like, I remember certain things my mom did when I was sick that like have really imprinted on me. It’s like, Oh, that made me feel so much better when my mom did that.
And that is very much like the body work in my course. It’s like very easy to do. Anyone can do it. And the babies just are like, Oh, thank you for doing that to me. That’s so nice. You know, so I like, I just, I feel really lucky, honestly. I talk about this all the time because. I wasn’t planning on making an E course.
I really wasn’t and I was planning on filming like essentially like a loom video and sending it to some of my favorite clients so that they could continue to do my work when I moved out of Charlotte, because I was like, I’m moving so far away. I’m going to send you this video. You guys are going to learn this and you’re going to do it.
So that like. I can keep working with y’all. And someone was like, you have to make an e course. And my husband said the same thing. And I was like, no, no one will care. No one will want to do it. Like, it’s not that great. And it’s like, like, I’m just so grateful that it just like happened because it really is such a special tool to be able to have as mom.
So
[00:52:44] Amanda Montalvo: And honestly, like even I send your Instagram videos to a lot of people, like if they’re trying to dip their toe in like I, the first thing I always tell people to do is the butt grabs, like it, it doesn’t matter even how old the kid is, honestly, but most of the time it’s new babies, right? That like my friends are freaking out or something.
And I’m like, okay, this is cause you have, I mean, you have a lot of, you know, Very generous content of like how tos and stuff on your Instagram too. So if someone does want to get started, but I would say like the butt grabs are the best thing ever. Or like people, especially like a baby that only sleeps on you, you know, reflux babies, right.
And then you try to lay them down. And if they like, start to wake up, my youngest is like that. It’s just immediately, butt grabs, butt massage. And she’s like out like a light. So.
[00:53:34] Emily Swann: Yeah, or even like the other day, I was like, I had been nursing Bowie so much because of his tooth and I was like, I’m kind of done nursing you. Like he’s 13 months, so I can do that now where I’m like, okay, you know, like we’re all done nursing right now. But I was doing the face massage on him and he just immediately fell asleep in my hands.
And I was like, what a cool tool that I have for when I do want to night lean him to have other like physical ways of connecting with him so that he still falls asleep
[00:54:01] Amanda Montalvo: Yes. Yeah, that’s, I get a lot of questions about that from like clients of like, cause you know, we need, it’s like a whole thing with like hormones and poo and all that stuff. And, but a lot of it is, I’m like, you know, They’re worried about the, the baby or the child. And I’m like, yeah, you, you just need to replace it with something else.
That’s soothing for them. Like you just, like, you can’t just stop doing it. Like you need to replace it or something. But yeah, that’s, that’s like really funny that it’s, they, sometimes I’m like, I’ll even think of it with if, you know, am I as fussy or if Eliana is like, you know, having more tantrums than usual or something.
And I’m like, why didn’t I think of this sooner? And then the mom guilt comes in. Right. Why didn’t I, I’ve
[00:54:40] Emily Swann: I do that
[00:54:41] Amanda Montalvo: with body work and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Like. It’s, but I’m curious of like the, there’s a lot of stuff you can do while you’re nursing too. So like, what, what do you have people start with?
Like in general, if they’re like, I want to start doing this for reflux or X, it could be like fussiness sleep. I mean, call like whatever it might be.
[00:55:00] Emily Swann: we didn’t get too much into the actual like latch adjustments that I do as a provider, but so the goal of the course, like I said, is to change the posture of the babies. You want them to be more long from their pubic bone to their chin. So like really long in their belly, really wide in their ribs, really high in their chin, off their chest.
That’s what we’re going for. So there’s a section in the course about integrating that into breastfeeding. So the goal is to then take That open long curvy posture and integrate it into breastfeeding. So that is how I fixed my daughter’s reflux I used to take her she would lash sideline because that’s the only way she would nurse for like eight months She would only nurse half asleep So like that’s, we did not leave the house much.
But I started when she would latch, I would take her hips. So she was at my side and I would slide her down towards my feet and that would open up right here. So she was no longer nursing, like kind of like a crow on me. I would, she would be more open and lengthy. And so every time after she slept for months, she would fall asleep nursing and then she would do the reflux.
I would see her like. Shoulders come up, she would do it, and then she would wake up and cry, and sometimes fall back asleep and sometimes not. When I started lengthening her, she stopped doing it at all. Like, I didn’t even see the reflux come up at all. So that is where I really learned like what to do with her and how to encourage that.
So if you are struggling with a colicky baby, with a baby with a really shallow latch or with a reflux baby, or with a baby that’s not pooping every day, but you’re confident that your supply is good, those are all things that like are very much an indication that your baby is very compressed in their belly from their chin pretty much down to like their you’re gonna want to do everything you can there are really good resources on my instagram There is a free video on my Instagram where I have three of my favorite, the butt krebs is in it, but my three favorite postures.
And then one of them is guppy pose, which is kind of a widely used like term and tool in my industry. But just the way I do it is to encourage that really big, wide front body. And so we’re going to take those things. We’re going to do them on our babies. Before nursing that’s the best way to do it And then when they are nursing if you can’t get your baby to latch in an open posture, that’s okay What I want you to do instead is latch them how you’ve been latching them and then open them up and then what you’re going to work on is trying to latch them in a more open position to start because that will really Give them the best Overall latch, but just to start if you need to like latch them, whatever kind of weird way you’re doing with 1000 of pillows and like how upside down, whatever it is, mom’s fine.
I love the intuition. So, like, do it if you need to, but then try and open them up so you can take their body and you can slide it forward. You can slide them down. You can like turn their hips kind of up a little bit so that they have a longer belly. So anything you can do intuitively in that sense to try and open up your baby is going to mitigate the reflux.
Like, and when I say like I had no medication for her anymore, no nothing. She just, it finally started working. Like it was like a miracle because. Like it was like overnight that just stopped doing it and I was I just was like over the moon because I tried everything I tried all the holistic stuff. I had tried all the medicine I had tried, you know I considered possibly like cutting out like all these different foods, but ultimately that isn’t gonna help because those are band aids So it was really cool when I found it.
So just try to open your baby up a little bit more open postured breastfeeding. If you go on my website, there’s a frequently asked questions page. There’s a really like easy to read piece of information about that.
[00:58:56] Amanda Montalvo: And then, so I’ll put some, like, there’s, there’s like a, one of your Instagram videos that I really like. It’s like doing butt grabs while breastfeeding. I’m going to like link that one. And then the same thing, like reducing tension in their hips while breastfeeding, like things like, and I think that’s kind of, it’s like, that’s how you like open them up,
[00:59:14] Emily Swann: Yeah, if they don’t, if they’re like resisting it, then definitely do something like the butt grabs, loosen their hips and then try and open them up.
[00:59:22] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. So I think, and like, these are, when you see it, it’s, it’s like very simple. Okay. So basically working on the environment first, getting outside, looking at nutrition, low screen, low containers, or working on open posture. Do you typically recommend like laid back nursing? I’m
[00:59:40] Emily Swann: I, I like laid back nursing for, especially for the newborns. Anything like the cradle or anything where you’re putting your hand on the back of their head, you’re automatically turning them downwards onto you. So I really prefer, and that’s more comfortable
[00:59:55] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, it doesn’t destroy mom’s posture as well. Okay. And then we kind of already talked about this. Is there anything that you want to add about motherhood? Cause it’s obviously this is so much about our babies, but I think it’s also so much about the moms as well. And you do talk a lot about like outsourcing motherhood.
We kind of talked about that a bit. Anything else that you want to add?
[01:00:19] Emily Swann: Yeah, I mean without making it too like stressful like change your entire life and change everything and Become a new mom overnight. I think it is good to start being Just open to new things I shared that on my instagram today about just like how I had a previous belief that was like very closed off and like Just being open to new things and then also like I think that we dramatically underestimate sometimes the healing power of like the energy in our environment.
So, like things like me and my husband had a really like, you know, I had a big transition into motherhood, but also my husband had a big transition into fatherhood and like, I think that’s pretty normal. It’s like definitely new and like, you’ve never had a baby before. And all of a sudden your time allotment is very different, but that was really hard on our marriage.
And I think cleaning up. Our marriage does a lot for our family. And I I’ve noticed that if we get in a disagreement and we can be in a disagreement and like handle it really well, and it doesn’t affect our kids. But if we have a disagreement and we react ways that we may be used to, then solely we’ll have a lot more like big responses to that.
And so. It’s just interesting to me. And I think that like moms as the kind of regulator of a family and like just knowing that that’s our role, whether you work, whether you don’t work, whether you’re home with your kids, whether you have a nanny, like whatever it is, no matter what, you are the regulator of the family’s kind of energy.
And so taking that and just holding that and knowing like, That’s my role. And like, what can I do without feeling stress without feeling pressure, but just like, how can we clean stuff up? So like, if, like, if we’re constantly having like a big reaction to our baby’s symptom that they’re presenting with us, like the first thing that we can do before we ever start fixing their issue is working on our reaction to it.
So like when Sully would cry so much in the car, I would be like, Sully, like I would get like, really like frustrated and like. We were in no position to be in like a healing journey if I’m that frustrated. So it’s like the first thing I’m doing is totally regulating myself and then extending out as a mother after that.
And so, like I said, like, I hate for this to come across as like a mom leaves this podcast and is like, I have so much to do now, but like. Just start with some like baby steps, regulate yourself, go outside, take the baby outside, take some deep breaths, like put them in the baby carrier, walk around, like very, it’s very simple and foundational when we really think about it, but sometimes it can feel like a lot to digest as well, especially in a postpartum time.
[01:03:09] Amanda Montalvo: And I mean, honestly, it’s like, if you want to simplify it, just do less,
[01:03:12] Emily Swann: do way less.
[01:03:13] Amanda Montalvo: do less is like as a parent, as a mom, like your kids don’t want to do 80, 000 things every single
[01:03:21] Emily Swann: I don’t, and it feels so good to do less. Like we, we signed up for one thing. I’ve never done anything with the kids cause I love the doing less and we have a farm. So it’s like, you know, our life is like fun. But I signed Sulea for gymnastics cause she had like mentioned maybe wanting to do gymnastics.
And I was like, two weeks in, I was like, this is not for us. Like the driving, the packing snacks, the, like, she was like, they kept being like, get in a line. And she was like, what is a line?
[01:03:50] Amanda Montalvo: that age? Yeah.
[01:03:52] Emily Swann: so
[01:03:53] Amanda Montalvo: does it and she loves
[01:03:54] Emily Swann: does she love it?
[01:03:55] Amanda Montalvo: oh, I mean,
[01:03:57] Emily Swann: because I thought she would, but no, we, we were like, this is not for
[01:04:00] Amanda Montalvo: It just took practice. Like, she just moved up to the next level because she’s about to be two and a half. Next month. And so they bump up the level and they do like that. You have to sit against the purple wall. And like, there’s more like formation and stuff in the first class.
She cried so much. And then she like the whole drive home. She’s like processing it. Got to sit against the wall. Got to share, take turns with your friends. She’s so funny how she like, she processes everything out loud like that. So
[01:04:26] Emily Swann: I love
[01:04:26] Amanda Montalvo: And then. She, and then she wanted to, we get home, she goes, go back to gymnastics.
I was like, ma’am, you just cried the whole class. But then the next week she had the best time. We do it. Cause she loves it. But it’s like, it, it, even that one thing a week is I’m like, I don’t know how people do stuff every
[01:04:42] Emily Swann: And I think that that’s such a good, like bringing it back to the mom. It’s like, you can see that that really fills up your daughter and that really gives her energy. My husband and I do these like actual energy audits, like what is draining our energy and what is giving us energy? So like one for him was like, he was like, it just so drains me to do the laundry, which is fine, it doesn’t drain me, but it totally drains me to do the dishes.
So it’s like, we mapped that out, but then there’s also bigger stuff. Like. And so like it was such a drain on my family to load the baby up in the car load solely We’d have to drive 30 minutes to go to gymnastics and then like she’s not totally in love with it We it’s kind of in a funky time where everyone was hungry afterwards So like then it’s like as a mom you can say like, okay This is taking a lot of energy from our family and I would really challenge people.
I’m a big I do this all the time. I shouldn’t do this, but i’ll like challenge people. Like what are you doing? Like Does society tell you that your kid needs to go to preschool and that’s why you have them go But it feels like an enormous energy output for you. Like you don’t have to do it, you know Or like are you keeping your kids home?
But like that’s a big energy drain for you and maybe a preschool like a three hour a day Option would be really like energy and life giving to you So it’s like you have to discern but don’t just do things just to do them like don’t just like Do gymnastics because all the girls do gymnastics or don’t just do preschool because it’s like it’s very popular in my area for kids To do preschool and
[01:06:10] Amanda Montalvo: Everyone does preschool. People think it’s insane that Eliana’s not in preschool. I’m like, she’s two and a half.
[01:06:15] Emily Swann: I know. I know they think it’s crazy and soli can already write her name And so i’m like, you know, i’m not really concerned about like The learning or the socializing but people feel this very like intense pressure Which is fine if that’s doesn’t affect you but if you feel drained like packing lunch and then getting out of the house and like you have other kids that have to like You said do an hour drive now and be in their car seat Like if that feels really draining to you I would really challenge moms to reevaluate if that is actually serving your family or if you’re doing it to check a box because if you’re in a stressful second baby experience and you’re lugging baby number one to preschool every day, I’m thinking that that’s probably going to clean up your energy output if you stop doing that.
So
[01:06:58] Amanda Montalvo: And then, and
[01:06:59] Emily Swann: you already paid, but you know, I
[01:07:00] Amanda Montalvo: yeah, and one thing like, it’s, I think that you touch on this a lot and I don’t want to forget to bring this up is, You talk about like, we would rather fix our babies and fix ourselves. And I’m like, well, and listen, I’ve done a lot of work. I’ve done a lot of mental, emotional, physical work on myself, and it’s still hard to hear it.
Right. It’s just one of those things that we’re like, ouch. And like, but like, that’s what it is. It’s making the hard decisions that are best for your family. It’s doing something because you guys genuinely want to do it. You’re or your kid genuinely wants to do it. And it is absolutely worth it. And just realizing that like.
I don’t know. I just think most people I talk to are not actually incredibly happy like with their lives and they have a lot going on and the kids aren’t necessarily happier thriving either. And it’s like something has to change. And if you’re not happy and you’re not taking care of yourself, like that’s like the number one thing, like your children will reflect that.
And so it’s just thinking about like, am I also taking care of myself? Cause you talk about this in the course of like, Are you, you can’t ask your child to do something or your baby to do something that you aren’t willing to do yourself. And it’s like a very, I’m like, that, that could potentially be a good way to end the podcast if you want to add anything to that.
Yeah.
[01:08:23] Emily Swann: Yeah. No, I agree. 100%. And we’re in such a hard spot in our time where there’s all this pressure to do things right, or this way or that way. And And what we’re then getting is this like mom whine culture, hating the toddlers, like when are they going back to school, that kind of thing. And it’s like, if we could.
find a way to do motherhood in a way that is very life giving to us, then our energy would be much higher. We would feel much better, and it’s so insane. And like I say this knowing full well that like this takes away from my business, and this takes away from coarse sales, that babies get better just when mom gets better sometimes.
Like, We don’t even have to physically do anything to our babies if we get better. And like you said, Amanda, like that sometimes is like very triggering. Like, I don’t want to do that. And we’ve
[01:09:21] Amanda Montalvo: Or how the, how is the, how is usually what gets
[01:09:23] Emily Swann: Especially, yeah. If it’s like a marriage, a big marriage thing, or like a big, like, like me for me and like my relationship to my own mother, like that, it was like, You know, those things are extremely hard to navigate and where is the resources on stuff like that is like, they’re, they’re not very good.
What I will say, what I have found to be a very incredibly helpful tool is like, obviously foundational nutrition, foundational, like environmental health, and then journaling start writing it down. Like, I think for my daughter, like the stuff that like was very triggering to me and therefore like. I was bumping heads with her a lot about when I started writing it down.
It was so Much easier for me to see objectively that this is all me. This has nothing to do with her This has everything to do with me and my relationship with my mother my relationship with my husband my relationship with myself And she is just mirroring and acting that stuff out for me to see she is totally calling me to see it and I Like when I write it, it’s so much clearer for me and that really helps, especially like if you’re like me and you live out in the middle of podunk nowhere, like, where am I, am I going to go see a therapist out here?
Like a special energetic, like all natural therapist. I’m thinking, no, you know? So it’s like, I have to find some sort of tool. So. foundational health, foundational nutrition, making sure, I mean, Amanda, you talk about this endlessly. This is so important. Making sure you eat first thing in the morning as a mom.
I mean, that, that should be like step number zero. Like you
[01:11:01] Amanda Montalvo: yeah.
[01:11:01] Emily Swann: up and eat. Do not try and tackle any baby issues until you have eaten and then go outside, get some fresh air and then start tackling stuff one by one, you know, and like, I just, there are no words for how much I love and feel ease and like comforted by motherhood.
It does not feel stressful to me whatsoever. And I often have people say, well, yeah, but it is exhausting. I don’t feel exhausted by motherhood
[01:11:29] Amanda Montalvo: It’s the other stuff that’s exhausting. Even people like, how do you do it? How do you do it when your husband’s deployed for months? I’m like, it’s not taking care of my kids that’s hard. It’s trying to do anything else. They’re the easy part. They’re the fun part. And it’s just sometimes you have to take everything else away
[01:11:48] Emily Swann: you really do. And it’s not, it’s not bad. Like there’s this idea that like, if we forsake everything as mothers and we just have that, then we will feel unfulfilled. And that is not true. But when we break it down and when we like go back to the dirt and then rebuild on a foundation of motherhood. So like, that’s how Amanda and I can have businesses.
It’s like, we started with the foundation of motherhood. And then we can build up on what our energy allows and like her and I are not working 40 hours a week But we have found a way to say like, okay We can have this many hours a week while also still being 100 as moms and like And that’s not to say everyone needs to have a business, but like you can give a hundred percent as mom and then find your hours a week that you need to play tennis or run or knit or whatever it is that really fills you up and gives you energy so that you can come back then as a mother the next day with a new kind of like rejuvenation.
But that
[01:12:50] Amanda Montalvo: me a way better wife too. Way better, like for sure. And you know, it’s, yeah, it’s being a mom, like motherhood is hard. The transformation of motherhood is hard. The journey you’re born every time a baby’s born, you know, that’s the hard part.
[01:13:06] Emily Swann: Yeah, but how like incredibly cool that and like men don’t get to have the same thing that we have like I feel so Like blessed to be a woman and to have the ability to have just such a pivotal Journey just kind of like here if I want it like some women become mothers and they still don’t take it but like if you want it, it’s totally right there and it’s that like Leaning into your intuition and like I just love like on my page often like i’ll talk about like You Something like controversial.
I won’t get into like any sort of like raw dairy or like not cutting foods as like a Band Aid for fixing your baby or vaccines or anything like that. And the coolest thing is, is that I don’t feel married to any of those ideas in particular, except for in my own motherhood, which is like exactly how it’s supposed to be.
And so like, as a mom, I have things that I feel really confident in. But then like, if I see a client and they feel really confident the other way, it’s like, yes, like, let’s do that. Like, if that’s how you feel, like, let’s totally do that. But there are so many moms that just feel very confused or they’re just blindly listening to anything the pediatrician says or anything the PT says.
And like, there’s no way to feel empowered and confident and filled up like that as a mom. So it just starts with a lot of like personal growth and work.
[01:14:28] Amanda Montalvo: And, I think for myself, like, cause I do get that question a lot of, you know, how, like, how do you do it balancing stuff?
Isn’t it hard? And I won’t, and I’m like, yeah, like it’s hard, but also like I work with women that can’t conceive, like that are having a really hard time getting pregnant or maintaining a pregnancy. And like, like, that’s like, I think for me, like every single day I talk to those women. And so I’m like, that helps.
There’s certain things that just make it easier for different people, depending on the job, like your environment, who’s around you you know, they can It’s kind of, you can do this yourself with journaling, but it like builds up my gratitude really fast for my situation. And I had a little bit of feedback from my business and motherhood podcast.
Like someone felt like it was too positive. And I was like, okay, well, I think there’s like enough negative stuff out there about being a mom, like a working mom. And honestly, like I have worked so, and it’s so, but I was like, that’s like the best compliment anyone could give me because I’ve worked so hard on my mindset when it comes to motherhood that I’m like, Oh, I did it.
You know, like I really did it cause I genuinely meant like all of it. So, we’re, this has,
[01:15:36] Emily Swann: You can’t physically run a business and be a mom full time unless you have already had that foundation because that would be so hard.
[01:15:44] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah.
[01:15:46] Emily Swann: That would be incredible. But I agree, like, I, I, I love that I get to work amongst my kids, especially my daughter. Like she is totally going to be a midwife or a lactation consultant or a nutritionist.
Like she is totally going to be in my field somewhere because she’s so obsessed with my work. And like, that is so special to me. That I have that with her and like, be home and like have babies being in and out of my house all the time. Like you said, like with working with your clients, like that, it makes me feel, John has constantly been like, you need to focus on core sales and automation, so you don’t have to see clients anymore.
I’m like, I love seeing clients. Like the time allotment isn’t there for me to see how many I want, but I love seeing clients and just
[01:16:31] Amanda Montalvo: It’s, I don’t think it’s good to get out of that work. And I, it’s funny. I like am in this place now where I am, I’m having a hard time balancing it, especially having a second child where I’m like, you know, I’m a lot of the advice I’m given is to not do any more client work, you know, focus on work on the business, not in the business.
And I’m like, I can’t do that. Like, I can’t do it. It’s not like I answer all the questions inside my course and people are like, that’s. That’s absolutely insane. Like how much time do you spend doing that? I was
[01:16:59] Emily Swann: You know, a VA.
[01:17:01] Amanda Montalvo: I do, but there, there are people that need help understanding a hair test. Like I’m not going to have someone that doesn’t understand.
And then it’s not me. Like people, I don’t know. I tried to have other people do it for a time and I just was like, This doesn’t work. It’s not as it’s just not it’s not it. You know, they’re not they didn’t build it. They didn’t make it They don’t like live it. So yeah, so it’s you know, they’re I think that’s a I think it’s a charming thing versus like yes, it’s may not be smart, but it’s like
[01:17:30] Emily Swann: Well, I’ll be interested to see if we have third babies, like if we continue virtual appointments and stuff
[01:17:36] Amanda Montalvo: Oh, my husband’s like, we’re done with two. He’s I think we’re, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s we’ll see. He gets out of the military next year, but you know, I think again, like that, it’s also good knowing yourself and your balance and like, do I have the capacity to give myself and help? Cause my work is very important to me and like helping women’s important and helping women become moms is so important to me and thrive as moms.
And then like, but I also like, I, my girls are it, you know? So it’s like, I don’t know if I could balance a third and be like happy and healthy and stuff, but I also have a two and a half year old and eight month old. So we’ll see, like, as they get older, like what that looks
[01:18:15] Emily Swann: That’s why I’m hoping my husband can scale back a little so that I have the time to still see some people, but have still lots more babies. But I am totally aware of like the unreality of some of that. It’s like, we’re about to go buy our dairy cow in two weeks. And I’m like, how many things am I going to put on my plate before I’m like, this is too many things.
Like I can’t do all these things.
[01:18:40] Amanda Montalvo: It’s hard when they’re positive stressors, you
[01:18:42] Emily Swann: Oh, yeah,
[01:18:43] Amanda Montalvo: all that you
[01:18:43] Emily Swann: hard to grow. I’m very much like I said, like a little type B and a little like, it’ll all work out like I’ll just it’ll all work out things until like, it really won’t work out. And then I’m like, oops, I did too many things.
[01:18:55] Amanda Montalvo: gotta walk that one back. That’s really funny. Any other resources I should link to? I’ll link, I’ll connect, I can connect with you after too, but I’m, I think everyone’s probably just hopefully, probably already on your Instagram. I’m assuming watching videos while they’re listening to this. Obviously Twitter. Yeah, check there for sure. There’s a lot of videos. I’ll link to some of the show notes that I think are good places to like start. They’re easy. And then of course, Emily has her dynamic infant movement course. I will link that as well. It, I think it’s very accessible. It’s not like, you know, I know you worked on that a lot with like the pricing and trying to figure out how can I make it so more women can do this.
Well, if you use my link, it is an affiliate link. So I make a small commission but there’s a coupon code attached to that. And. Yeah. Oh yeah. Instagram is the love of breastfeeding that if you guys didn’t know, she’s at the love of breastfeeding and her website is the love of breastfeeding.
[01:19:48] Emily Swann: And I will say that if you are reaching out to me, which I get so many, and like I just was saying, I love virtual appointments. I love seeing clients still. If you’re reaching out to me for an appointment but the resolvement will be body work, which most cases it will, unless you’re having like a low supply issue or something that’s actually more lactation based, I would really encourage you to go To the course first, and there is a Facebook page.
So then I will answer questions in there. I also have very discounted appointments for course students that are like. Much shorter so it’s more like you already have the foundation of the course So I don’t have to tell you to do body work and then we just talk about what the issue is Those are discounted.
They’re short So I know everyone loves especially moms and I I love this like this terminal uniqueness of our babies Where it’s like no, I want you to see what’s going on I promise that most cases, unless you are having a low milk supply or like something that’s very lactation based like that, then I’m really going to encourage if your baby has a bad latch, if they have reflux, if they have gas, if they have colic, if they’re sleeping with their mouth open, go to the course.
First, I promise I will connect with you in there, but
[01:20:58] Amanda Montalvo: And you do live calls, don’t you?
[01:21:01] Emily Swann: I used to, but you know, no one really got on them. So I made the Facebook page, just we’re so busy as
[01:21:06] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to get everyone’s
[01:21:09] Emily Swann: and then I get a lot of, we do a lot of the, like, if you’re in the course. You get the discounted appointment. It’s very quick.
So everyone that do it during nap time. And we will talk about maybe possible environmental issues or like if your baby’s latch is still bad, I’ll watch the latch. So all of that is available in the course. I just encourage you to go there first to save yourself the time and money versus, cause my appointments are more expensive than my course price.
So it’s just makes more sense
[01:21:36] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, and you’ll need it. I mean, the course is, it is worth it. And I’m like, even if you have older kids, like I still do all the, I loved it. Cause I was like, Oh, there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t necessarily know for Eliana. That was like really helpful. Especially, you know, she gets older. Yeah. It’s a fun age to do it on too.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time and your expertise. I really, really appreciate it. I hope everyone starts to get curious and do some body work on their babies and toddlers. And yeah, go follow Emily, check out her course and make sure everyone looks at the resources that I’m linking in the show notes if you’re wondering where anything is.
[01:22:11] Emily Swann: Yeah, and definitely watch Teresa’s episode first because that’s gonna be, like, a whole bigger picture on baby reflux.
