In today’s episode, I have the pleasure of chatting with Therese Dansby, a registered nurse and International Board Certified Lactation Consultant (IBCLC). We dive deep into the world of infant reflux, discussing everything from symptoms and challenges to alternative therapies and personal experiences. Therese shared her wealth of knowledge on topics like oral restrictions, bodywork, and the importance of a holistic approach when it comes to helping babies with reflux. This is a great episode if you’re a mom struggling with infant reflux or just want to learn more about this common issue.
Therese started her career as a NICU nurse in 2007, pivoted to birth center postpartum care in 2013, and became an IBCLC in 2015. Helping moms build confidence in their breastfeeding choices and work through breastfeeding struggles is her dream job alongside homeschooling her own three children, ages 10, 7, and 2.
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[00:00:00] Amanda Montalvo: Welcome to the Are You Menstrual Podcast, where we dive deep into all things women’s health to support you on your healing journey. I’m Amanda Montalvo, functional and integrative dietitian, also known as The Hormone Healing RD. If you enjoy this podcast and you want to keep learning, check out the podcast Patreon, where I share a bonus episode with additional downloadable resources each week.
You can go to patreon. com forward slash hormone healing RD, or check out the link in the show notes. In this episode, I am interviewing Therese Dansby. She is a registered nurse and an IBCLC that really supports women postpartum and has a holistic view, very nuanced view on supporting yourself post, making sure that moms get the care that they need, and she’s really helping them build confidence in their breastfeeding choices and work through breastfeeding struggles.
It’s really her dream job alongside homeschooling her own three children, which are aged. 10, seven, and two. And previously you’ll hear her talk about it a little bit. She was a NICU nurse in 2007, and then she like pivoted to that birth center postpartum care in 2013. And then that brought her here with us today.
She is an amazing resource for breastfeeding. She’s one of my favorite Instagram accounts out there and has a great podcast called milk and motherhood. We’ll talk more about her resources in episode two. We covered a lot. It’s just, I’m recording this after I just finished with her and. Get your notebooks ready, guys.
I’m also going to have a cheat sheet that goes along with this episode, like a PDF that you guys can download because there’s just so much to baby reflux. There’s many different root causes. We go through all of those physical causes, chemical causes, and then we also have a lot of recommendations for things that can help symptom wise.
They’re not getting to the root cause, but if you need some relief for your baby as you’re searching and working on it, healing those root causes. We cover that as well. It probably is one of my favorite podcast episodes to date and that’s it. I’ll leave you with that. So I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Make sure you connect with Therese and I after and let us know if you have any more questions and download that free baby reflux guide. All right, let’s get started with your experience with baby reflux. Obviously you have, this happened when you were already in IBCLC or no? No, my first one did not. Oh, okay.
Very interesting. So I bet those were two different experiences. So can you share your story of dealing with baby reflux with a couple of your children?
[00:02:36] Therese Dansby: Yeah, definitely. So my oldest is 10 and I had been an ICU nurse when he was When I was pregnant with him, I worked at a birth center for a bit. I was a breastfeeding educator.
I kind of just knew enough to be paranoid about things, but not actually how to dive into things. And so he cried a lot, a lot, a lot. I think at one point it was like eight hours a day total. It was just like he would sleep for eight hours, not in a row, obviously. And then he would cry for eight hours and he would spend eight hours eating because he was a very slow eater and it was, um, So rough, and there was a lot of screaming.
He had like a really high muscle tone. He would do kind of what a lot of people will maybe call a silent reflex. So he wasn’t a spitty baby, but he would do, you could like kind of hear stuff coming up and then he’d like gulp it back down. He really liked to pacify her for a little while, just to kind of keep things down.
I think that I just did it. No, a lot then he, in hindsight, he definitely had a posterior tongue die. He definitely needed more and better body work than he was getting. We were going to the chiropractor. He did get craniosacral therapy. None of that really seemed to help. I did cut out dairy and soy because he did clearly react to those, but they just cried a lot.
And I think when I went to the pediatrician, they just put him on. Zantac. And I was kind of desperate. Because he cried so much, and I wanted him to be comfortable, and the NICU nurse in me, that was kind of the only thing I knew, was like, medication, so it, it, it kind of worked for a little bit, and then it stopped working, which was kind of normal for Zantac, and then they put him on Omeprazole, and I, uh, kept him on that basically till he was almost one because I was just so afraid to it didn’t necessarily fix the problem either.
But I was afraid that if I took him off of it, it would get worse. And it was a weight based dose, basically. So I essentially just let him taper off of it by growing out of it. Okay, so that was my experience. I wouldn’t say we ever really got to the root of that. But then with my third, it was actually much more He did something called the Sandifer’s response, which is where they like, they arch back and it wasn’t until again, he was over the age of one and we went to the allergist and the allergist was like, Oh, did you think he was having a seizure?
And I was like, yes, thank you. Um, It’s very terrifying because he would wake up out of a dead sleep and he would be arching back and there would be, whether his eyes were opened or closed, there was no, like, recognition. There was no, you couldn’t, you know, it’s not like a crying baby. You put him to the breast.
They calm down. You give him a pacifier. They calm down. None of that. Like you just, and his arms and legs would be limp and his body would be rigid. And so there were several times that I had my shoes on, like ready to go to the ER. Like I, I’ve seen baby seizures and I would think, well, I don’t think this is a seizure, but also like, you’re not there and I can’t get you to stop doing this.
So I don’t know. That is
[00:05:57] Amanda Montalvo: so terrifying. It
[00:05:58] Therese Dansby: was scary. Yeah, it was scary. And obviously he was uncomfortable. The Sandifer’s response is caused by the spasms of the lower esophagus. And really no one knows if the baby’s. essentially doing it voluntarily to elongate their esophagus and like stop the discomfort or as somehow the spasms are causing other muscles to dystonic.
And that was, that was a pretty drastic experience. And I felt so validated when the allergist was like, it’s okay. Most people think that they’re seizures because I just thought, why don’t I know what’s going on with my baby for him? We ended up needing to cut out a fair amount of foods, which I hate saying.
And when he would have an episode, I had found one homeopathy that worked for him. And I mean, it was wild when you find a homeopathy that works. I mean, I would give it to him and he would burp, like huge burp and stop screaming. It was just wild, but it took a while. It took a while to get there, but, and now he’s since grown out of it.
But that was, those were two kind of. Different experiences. And when we talk about what causes reflux, I can kind of like point out where I yeah, my kids are. Yeah, because they don’t, you
[00:07:19] Amanda Montalvo: know, they can’t tell us. We’re just guessing. I know. I feel like that’s the hardest thing with babies are like, I just want you to tell me like what’s wrong and you can’t.
And they’re like, I’m trying. That’s why I’m crying all the time, you know? So I’m so uncomfortable and I won’t sleep except for on your chest, you know? So Yeah, so I totally relate to that and I think it’s cool. I mean, it’s awful that you went through that, but it’s, it’s just good to know. Like I, when I started talking about baby reflux on my Instagram stories, ’cause Amaya, my second daughter is my first experience with it.
We had had so many clients though, so I was like, okay, this isn’t my first rodeo. But also when you’re going through it firsthand, I’m like, this is awful. This is, yeah, absolutely. It’s, and I would say. And like hers was mild compared to a lot of what my clients went to the story that you just shared. And it’s still so incredibly challenging for like everyone.
So they’re just, they’re all from different root causes though. So that’s like what I want to get into, like, cause people are like, what helped, what helped your daughter? And I’m like, probably not what’s going to help your baby to be completely honest. And like, that’s why when people were like, Oh, can you share more?
I’m like, I’m going to do. A podcast series on this because ultimately you’re, I don’t want you to go like run to whatever I did and then have it not work and then be incredibly disappointed. So that’s really what the goal is to go through next. Cause obviously you had your own personal experiences, two of your children, you are an IV CLC and you have the background with being a NICU nurse as well.
I would love to know, and this is going to be the, basically the whole podcast episode. Yes. What? Are the possible root cause I know and this is obviously we’re going to go like spin off from here to like all the different kind of areas because this is a big question. It’s it’s not an easy thing to answer.
What do you think are the possible different areas that you wouldn’t have a mom investigate like if you were supporting her postpartum and her baby had reflux to figure out where is this coming from and how can we help it?
[00:09:16] Therese Dansby: Yeah, and I love doing this kind of playing detective and I also want to validate your experience, even when we dealt with something clinically, I’m not going to start crying this early in the podcast episode, even when you’ve dealt with something clinically, when it is your baby, Like all bets are off your your clinical brain and your mom brain do not co exist.
Yeah, that is yeah, and I couldn’t evaluate that
[00:09:39] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, yeah, and then you’re kind of like, oh all this stuff helped this other person and it’s not helping me, you know When you’re throwing out
[00:09:48] Therese Dansby: Checking the boxes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and so I love Really nerding out about this because usually when moms have an instinct that something is off, they’re correct.
And it’s not that the pediatricians don’t care, but they have a limited toolbox and a limited amount of time with you. And so you’re going to get limited answers from them. So I know with my family, First, I went in and said, this is the situation. You know, he cries all the time. Like, I don’t know. I, you know, I’ve tried all the soothing things that I know.
And the pediatrician said, well, it’s colic. And at the time I was like, okay. And I went home and sat with that, but. For people who don’t know the definition of colic, it’s so silly. It’s your baby cries for at least three hours a day for at least three days a week for at least three weeks. It’s such a goofy definition.
It’s like IBS. It’s like, yeah, it’s like, if your baby has colic, you don’t need enough definition, but also colic is not a diagnosis. It’s just a description of the crying and it’s not the cause of it. So. Absolutely, I’m more like, let’s, let’s ask a whole bunch of questions and play detective. Sometimes moms have a gut feeling and I can help them hone it down.
Sometimes they’re just at a total loss. So, I made a little chart here. I’m happy to share the, a better picture with you, but. Reflux kind of goes the spectrum from happy spitters all the way to gastroesophageal reflux disease, and the symptoms vary in severity as well. But the super quick summary is that happy spitters are just babies who spit up when they burp or after ever eating, just a little bit of spit up, just dribbles down, sometimes we call it wet burps, like they just burp and stuff comes up with it.
It’s simply because babies. Their musculoskeletal system is still immature. Their esophageal sphincter might still be a little bit weak. They don’t have great posture, obviously, you know, and usually this kind of reflux, reflux is just simply anything coming up from the stomach. Usually that resolves by four to six months.
Doctors love to say it’s a laundry problem, not a medical problem. Yeah. So, so that would be a happy spitter. Then there are physical causes, which there are a lot of them usually. Somehow involving pressure on the stomach so that contents are coming up and we’ll go over all of those, but there are also chemical causes and those can be things like food allergies.
It can be things like histamine. It can be things like the microbiome, and it can simply be things like, is your baby getting breast milk or formula? And there’s no shame in how you’re feeding your baby, but breast milk is unique because it’s kind of packaged with its own digestive enzymes. So it’s a lot easier for the babies to digest.
The proteins are smaller, it breaks down quicker, so it doesn’t hang out in the stomach long enough, theoretically, to reflux, but obviously there are exceptions. Yeah. And then GERD, which we probably won’t really touch on today, but this is, this is what I would see in the NICU. So these are babies who have things like extreme prematurity, neurological conditions, birth defects like esophageal atresia, structural abnormalities, metabolic diseases.
These are like, we’re not minimizing those, but these are not things that you can fix at home. These are things that definitely require, yeah, where there is a time and a place for medication, often a cocktail of medications. These babies are getting like pH probes, you know, where they put like a little tube down the nose into the stomach and in the NICU we would monitor it every time the baby would cry or have an apnex spell where they hold their breath.
We would kind of push a button. And then they would correlate it with a pH readout and, you know, usually the baby was holding their breath or crying because something was coming up on the stomach. And so we’re not dismissing those, but those are definitely medications and surgery. Other things obviously might help on top of
[00:13:41] Amanda Montalvo: that, but, but that wouldn’t be what you would be typically seeing, like in your, like IBCLC practice, like that’s not what you’re typically helping with.
Right. That’s more like if you’re in a hospital. Yeah.
[00:13:53] Therese Dansby: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, no, usually we’re, we’re kind of narrowing down physical causes versus chemical causes for most moms that are coming to me, like, my baby’s spitting up a lot, or they’re praying all the time, or
[00:14:05] Amanda Montalvo: things like that. Okay. And that, I think that’s helpful just to know like there is a range, just like everything.
It’s like it’s a spectrum. And that kind of goes along with, you know, like what are the possible root causes? How like severe is this Now the biggest thing that people go to first. Well, at least in my experience, it oral restrictions. So like possible ties, like tongue tie, lip tie, uh, that was definitely a part of my daughter’s was her lip tie for sure.
But I do think that that’s sometimes it’s not an easy button because it’s not easy to deal with those. Right. But I, I do feel like now I’m kind of like, okay, but like there could be other areas that we still need to investigate. You know, it’s not. Always just from an oral restriction, but I would love to know, like, how could those lead to reflux?
[00:14:54] Therese Dansby: Yeah. And that’s a great question. That’s kind of where I suspect my oldest fell into that spectrum because he, when you have, if you think about the GI tract, right, it’s technically your outsides on the inside, all the way from your mouth, all the way down to the rectum. And there’s a bunch of sphincters along the way.
So there’s that sphincter between the stomach and the esophagus, There’s also a sphincter at the end of the stomach going to the small intestine, and so technically it’s like plumbing, a backup anywhere in the system can cause things to come, come back up. And with, with some, with tongue ties in particular, I feel like it’s, it’s fairly easy to envision it.
If you picture the esophagus and then you picture just pulling up on one end of the top of it, it’s going to also pull up on the sphincter down at the bottom because it’s all connected. And so, then you just the integrity of the sphincter has been compromised and it’s easier for things to come out of it so okay that’s often the easiest way for people to picture how a tie could actually impact reflux but But then there’s no one answer because then you also get into, babies with ties are often swallowing a lot more air and more air in the stomach.
Obviously there’s more pressure on the stomach contents and
[00:16:08] Amanda Montalvo: I think that like for the lip tie, especially like I know, yeah. Yes. With that was like our experience. My I and I thought we had no nursing issues. Unlike my first, I was like, I’m in the clear baby. I did it. We’re having no problems this time.
And then it was like, Mm-Hmm, . Oh, just kidding. You’re not gonna sleep for the next. Two months of your life. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, but, and it, I do think it was primarily her lip. Um, yeah. ’cause you lose, just popping off lose seal. Yep. You
[00:16:33] Therese Dansby: lose that seal and you get air and every time you lose a seal. Yep.
[00:16:37] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah.
So I, that one I feel like is so much easier to deal with. The lip. Yeah. The lip die then like the, to the tongue is like. You know, if you do get it revised, like, cause it’s kind of like, you know, what are your options? And I am going to talk about this with Emily as well, but probably like maybe a little more in depth, but I, I, I do know that you guys view reflux differently.
So I want your take as well. Do you think that Like, because really then people like, Oh, okay, it’s this, I’ll just go get these ties revised. And then like, we’ll be on our way. And the reflux is gone. I, I had a lot of women filling out the question box that I put in my stories and they’re like, revised ties, reflux is still here, you know, kind of like it didn’t do anything.
And obviously it’s not the only root cause, but do you kind of, what’s your experience? Well,
[00:17:23] Therese Dansby: Emily and I will definitely overlap in that area. And I’m glad that you’re talking with her because I don’t have to go into the whole spiel about necessarily what body like a four hour podcast. Yes. Yeah. So that’s great that she can go more into depth on that.
But I think that I think that body work can help. You also have to retrain how to use the tongue and the mouth. And so for a lot of people, that’s why it might not be an instant fix, because The baby’s still doing the same thing with their tongue, even though the range of motion is available to them, they don’t know how to use it.
And so that was a lot of my lactation clients in the beginning, they’d be like four months old to her two months post revision. And I’m like, I don’t, I can’t actually work miracles. I know, it’s, it’s, it’s a very difficult time to seek out help. That’s why I’m just so big on like prenatal education and asking for help early, even if you think it’s minor, you can just.
prevent so much more down the line, but that’s why, that’s why a procedure doesn’t always fix the problem. The other thing is these babies have had that tension in their body since in utero. I mean, we’re talking weeks old and they’ve developed with that and they’re all their other You know, functions developed around that because the midline is what develops first and so there are definitely imbalances in the body and the vast majority of babies with tongue ties that again, don’t necessarily resolve simply with removing the tongue tie alone.
There’s I can send you the link. Have you read Michelle Tetherberg and Tetherflow article?
[00:19:05] Amanda Montalvo: I don’t think I have, but I did her midline
[00:19:08] Therese Dansby: revolution course. This was way before she ever moved to Maui when she was like a dental hygienist slash IBCLC, but it’s, it’s essentially talking about this concept. And it was the first time it kind of went mainstream was that.
It was the idea of like an iceberg. If you cut off the bottom of it, theoretically, like not a whole lot’s going to change versus like a kite, you know, you cut the string and then the kite’s just ready to fly. That was more of us, the premise of the article, meaning that you need to do body work and retraining too.
And then the release is kind of the final piece of that puzzle. Yeah. So, yeah. So every now and then it does help. Immediately. Yeah. Her lip helped right
[00:19:54] Amanda Montalvo: away. Like that. I will say like her, the lip did help immediately. And I, I will say, I personally regret doing the tongue. I will never do it again, but I do, but I regret not doing the lip.
I didn’t revise my older daughter at all. And I regret not doing her lip because it’s still so, so, so tight. And now we’re, we’re going to have to do it for, for like oral health and dental reasons. So, yeah. That was a bummer, but we did, we revised the Maya at six weeks postpartum. Cause I was just, or maybe it was even four, it was five or six.
It was close. I was, I was basically like we, she developed it. And then like two weeks later, I was like, I have found a holistic dentist not near me and then went through that whole process. But we had already been doing bodywork. Cause I knew I learned all that stuff from my first daughter. And so I was kind of like, if this is not going to like improve things.
And I’m like, honestly. She’s got a tight lip tie anyway, the same exact lips as my older daughter and like we’re gonna do, I would probably do that regardless and I just wouldn’t do the tongue over. The tongue is just so much work and I think it, it like got a lot worse before it got better and even now I’m like, I just don’t know if that was worth it, but yeah.
Yeah, there’s like a whole oral restrictions are a whole thing and it’s like they can impact it. I 100 percent believe that it was part of it for us, but I, I feel so bad for the moms that aren’t like well prepared of like, Hey, you’re going to do a supervision and it’s going to be so much work on you specifically for the next like year of their life to learn how to use that tongue again, because it’s not just the tongue.
It’s also like. Oral function, like you said. But if you’re working with an IBCLC that’s educated on, like, that’s where we learned everything. We had an amazing IBCLC, which I’m so grateful for. And it was like, okay, this is the easy part. Now here’s all the work that we have to do. Yeah, I usually, I will
[00:21:36] Therese Dansby: say for, um, tongue, lip ties, you can do, there’s a wider range of when you can do them for a tongue tie.
Usually it works best to do it between four and eight weeks, which you did. Usually it works best to do body work first, which you did, but a lot of moms are just playing catch up down the road. Like I was with my first and it’s like, well, I didn’t know that, you know, I know, I know. And you can’t, you can’t.
You can’t change that. But, and yes, you should have an IV CLC who’s giving you a really solid plan for before and after care for your revision and kind of prehab and rehab, not just like, here’s your plan, see the dentist. It should be a little more detailed than that. And if it’s not, you probably need a second opinion.
[00:22:18] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. And I, I was, our dentist actually referred us to the I-B-C-L-C. Oh, that’s amazing. And saw her and she was like, yeah, but I just wish I saw her first. I will say yes. Like luckily we knew a lot of things, but it’s like, if I were gonna do it again, she gave me a li kind of different advice from the dentist and I liked her so much more.
So if I, you know, if I were to redo it all again, I, and when people ask, I’m like, see the I-B-C-L-C first? Yes. Like we didn’t have nursing issues, you know, so I was like, oh, like I’m just gonna go to the dentist. But we did have nursing issues ’cause she had reflux. So, you know. Always get a good IBCLC is basically the moral of the story.
[00:22:52] Therese Dansby: I’m not saying that to get business, right? Like I know, like you’re saying, I think that that process, it goes best in that order.
[00:22:59] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, for sure. So if someone is like thinking about that and then I’m going to have the next episode is with Emily Swan and we’re going to be going through body work because that is a topic where It’s so important.
It’s probably been the most helpful thing that I’ve learned for being like having children in general, to be completely honest, because it’s totally changed my view on like motherhood as well. And so I’m going to get into all that with Emily. If you guys are like, what kind of body work do you do? Like, we’ll talk about it.
I prefer for the mom to learn it herself and to not be bringing the child somewhere. I just think that’s like the best way to do it for everyone involved. Um, and I promise you’re going to get lots of fun. Details from Emily. And she’s got like a million resources that I’ll share with all of you. So that’s kind of like the oral restrictions, oral function, body tightness, those can, I think those are pretty much always a contributor in some way, shape, or form.
Would you agree? For most
[00:23:49] Therese Dansby: babies it is. I think the other thing that might, Oh, often be a coexisting contributor is like maybe a little bit of an oversupply or things like that. Usually those are coexisting with some other. Aspect.
[00:24:03] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. For sure. And even just thinking about like your birth and stuff too, like obviously baby utero, but it’s like, what was your birth like?
Cause like, you know, babies are going to be tight. Like I have a friend that like her baby was breached, like her whole pregnancy and I’m like, okay, well he’s, he’s the amount of body work that baby’s going to need. It gets out is going to be astronomical. So like things like that, they’re just good to like pay attention to and like reflect on.
[00:24:27] Therese Dansby: Yeah. And I breach and transverse babies. I’m I’ll just interject if you have a breach or transverse baby, like schedule body work now before they’re born, they definitely have the most trouble breastfeeding that alone. If I walk into a. I work in the hospital and in private practice. If I walk into a hospital room and saw that it was a breach, she suction, I’m like, we’re going to talk about this right away because, and then also birth the way I explain it to parents is if you’ve ever slept funny, like in the car or in a bed at a hotel and like your neck is kinked up and your jaw hurts.
And like, every time we take a bite, like your jaw, that happens to babies too. They’re stuck in one position at the end of pregnancy, or if labor is really intense or is augmented somehow, or they come out. in anything but like that perfect, you know, occipital first position. They have those tensions too.
And I will see babies all the time at asymmetrical jaws, just simply because of how they were positioned in utero or how birth went, and it’s not like a. birth defect and bodywork fixes it, but yeah, that’s a more difficult conversation to have in the hospital.
[00:25:30] Amanda Montalvo: Oh yeah. Yeah. Especially in that setting, but it’s like, you can’t basically, I feel like we all, we need to learn bodywork for our babies regardless.
And like, you can’t go wrong. And for me, I’m like, okay, let’s start with like the least invasive intervention first, you know? Um, cause
[00:25:45] Therese Dansby: what’s going to be the harm. And I shouldn’t say that there are some bad body workers. Oh yeah. But in general, you know, and I, and I would. I do also want to say that sometimes people get really fixated on like one type of body work, or we need to find this exact practitioner, or we need to travel, you know, across an ocean to see this one person.
If they’re in a car seat, probably gonna undo all the body work. Yeah. I hate to break it to you. Yeah. And I just One thing I’m finding over the years is that I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that in counseling, like the therapeutic relationship is more important than the technique that the counselor uses.
Yeah. And I think a lot is the same with the body worker is that body worker like making eye contact with your baby? Are they connecting? Do you as the mom feel safe with them? I know with my first TISA, like three different body workers and none of them helped. And then when he was like, two and a half, we finally found somebody that, that was shocking at that age.
Yeah. Yeah. And it was really, that’s when we did his tongue tie, his for neck to me when he was two and a half. Because he was having some issues like moving solids around in his mouth. How did that go? Fantastic! Because by then I was in my BCLC, I had all these tools in my toolbox. I just feel like that’s such
[00:27:00] Amanda Montalvo: a rough, that’s like a rough age, you know, to, I don’t know.
[00:27:05] Therese Dansby: It is.
[00:27:05] Amanda Montalvo: I’m
[00:27:06] Therese Dansby: scared. I’m scared
[00:27:07] Amanda Montalvo: to do it.
[00:27:07] Therese Dansby: Yeah, he was my only child at the time. I was like barely newly pregnant with my second. They were more spaced out. So I had, Some bandwidth for it, but we did, yeah, we did what I do with my babies. Like we got the body work first. I practiced all of his exercises beforehand to make sure that he could actually do them.
And with kids, it’s a lot of like licking the lollipop, licking the popsicle, licking the peanut butter off the top of your lip, you know, but you make it fun. And yeah, we practiced them beforehand. And so it went pretty smoothly actually.
[00:27:39] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, I think it shouldn’t be too bad with my older daughter because we’re only doing her lip, but it’s, it’s funny because when I was doing all this stuff to Amaya after we got her, like before and after we got her released, we were doing all these exercises and stuff and Eliana would be like, my turn, why don’t you stretch me?
So I’m like, Oh, maybe, maybe this will go okay. But yeah, that’s, that’s. Like really funny. Okay. The other big area, like that I want to talk about is you talked about is like gut health and food allergies. So let’s talk about gut health first, because I had so many women message and I know this is a common recommendation.
They’re like, should I take this probiotic or give my baby this probiotic? Like, will that help? So can you talk about like the gut microbiome and how that can affect? Yeah.
[00:28:22] Therese Dansby: I have not, I’ve seen it be more of a co existing factor than stand alone factor. Obviously, as you know, mom’s microbiome gets passed on to the baby and particularly if mom got antibiotics in pregnancy or delivery, then It’s more directly impacting the baby’s microbiome.
I have not done, you’ve probably done more testing with their clients. I have certainly referred clients to like tiny health testing for babies, but I don’t often get to, you know, search through their results to see. It’s cause they take like two months
[00:29:00] Amanda Montalvo: to come back. Have you noticed that? They take so long to come back.
[00:29:05] Therese Dansby: Yeah, we did it a long time ago, so it’s probably, As it gets more popular, getting slower. Yeah, so I will often suggest gut testing if we’ve kind of ruled out everything else. Because it is such a, like, it takes a while to get the results and then it takes a while to see results once you start implementing the suggestions.
I will say if you have a baby who’s having consistently mucusy or watery stools or a baby who’s, poop smells like nail polish remover, like acetate, then you probably getting the testing sooner rather than later is helpful because not only do you have the microbiomes, but then you have, or the microbes, but you have the, their byproducts like butyrate and acetate and things like that.
And so butyrate kind of. Helps line the intestines, you know, to prevent what we would call leaky gut. Although all of us have leaky gut, not just because we all have messed up microbiomes, but because your gut is not like an iron wall. Like we want to think that it is, but. I’m not seeing it directly, immediately affect reflux, reflux in and of itself.
The exception might be if your baby does have H. pylori. Hopefully a mom would know if she has a history of that. It would, a baby is probably not just going to get it randomly when they’re under six months of age. And, but, you know, if, if the mom or dad has it, there could be a chance that the baby has it.
And that would be causing more pain, but often it’s a, you know, It’s a cofactor. There is a probiotic called Gerber, the Gerber Soothe probiotic. Is that even still around? I don’t know. That was one strain that was somehow clinically tested to reduce the amount of crying in babies. So, but for the most part, babies are, tend to be low in the Bifido bacteria.
And so, If you want to supplement blindly, which I discontinued. It was this. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There are so many baby probiotics on the market now, but if you want to supplement blindly, I usually recommend the smidge infant one. Yeah, I really like that one. Because it has a lot of the bifidobacteria, and those are easily killed by antibiotics.
Um, most moms are low in bifidobacteria, and it’s kind of a safe bet that most babies are going to be low in it, but I wouldn’t necessarily use adult probiotics, or like specific single strains, unless you’re testing.
[00:31:47] Amanda Montalvo: Thyroid health is essential for our hormones, having healthy digestion, energy, skin, fertility, and so much more.
Really, our thyroid sets the metabolic pace of our body, so it’s going to affect all the different systems in the body. Whether you think you may have some thyroid dysfunction going on or you have a confirmed diagnosis, Chances are you probably haven’t been given the best tools to address your thyroid health.
That was me when I first started my healing journey. My thyroid health is really what kicked off a lot of my concerns and research into women’s health. And it was so hard for me to find good information, which is why I’m so passionate about sharing about it. I, I’m so passionate. I made a free mini course.
It’s called the functional thyroid series and it has all the information that I wish I knew when I was first beginning my healing journey. And honestly, even like well into that, like halfway through that decade, the first video goes through the different root causes of thyroid dysfunction. It’s not just like your thyroid is not making a thyroid hormone.
There are five different ways that you can have dysfunction that is affecting either your thyroid gland or your brain. Or how you’re using that. So I go through that in the first video, then I talk about how stress impacts our thyroid function and hormone availability. I talk about lighten your thyroid in the next lesson and how our thyroid hormone is released throughout the day.
Then I get into nutrition, minerals, specifics for thyroid health and how to support that. And finally, I talk about utilizing labs to assess your thyroid health and optimize it. So there’s so much great information. I cannot recommend it enough. If you You are struggling with thyroid health or you think it could be a part of your thyroid concerns.
I’ve had a lot of people reach out and say, I can’t believe this is free, so please take advantage of it. You can find the link in the show notes. When we work with babies that like moms that have babies that have reflux and like say they were like one of our clients previously, that’s typically how it happens and they, they have a gut health history and so it’s, I’m like, we’re going to address your gut health.
If, if we were not already able to do that, a lot of times women will get pregnant like while they’re working with us, like unplanned because they’re like, Oh, I want to prepare. And then like we do all this stuff and they end up conceiving and I’m like, it’s so great. But I’m also like, I wish we got to work on your gut health a little bit more.
And then that’s when we’ll do stool testing with them. Postpartum babies, guts change so fast. They’re in like, that’s, Like we did the tiny health test for Eliana, but by the time we got the results back, I was like, it’s literally, it doesn’t even look like this. Our gut health does too, by the way. So like our, our gut microbiome is also often like shifting, but babies, they just, they, everything’s just like they’re developing.
So it’s going to be shifting and changing. So I’m more of an advocate, like if the mom has gut health concerns and their baby has reflux, I’m like, really, we should be working with mom is like my opinion and what we’ve seen the most success with, but then that was part of my story is like, I got really bad food poisoning and then literally the next day a my was like, She didn’t have any signs of reflux before and next day she’s like positing so like she wasn’t spitting it out But it’s like she’s like spinning up swallowing it and then I couldn’t lay her down flat ever again after that so we should do
[00:34:55] Therese Dansby: a poll on this because I got food poisoning too with my third and I had like some chick like chicken that I didn’t reheat all the way and I Know
[00:35:06] Amanda Montalvo: where mine came from.
[00:35:07] Therese Dansby: Oh my gosh. I’ve never I Maybe only had food poisoning once before and I was so sick. And yeah, I never had it I
[00:35:13] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, I was so ill and but she slept through she slept till 4am that night, which was like basically unheard of because she was like, Yeah, I don’t know. She was like three weeks old or something.
She was so little. And, and I was like, Oh, my, I’m like, the whole you know, I’m stressing out in between puking, like, is she gonna wake up? And she didn’t. And I and then I’m like, Okay, I’ll be fine. Like, I’m just going to go back to sleep after like literally throwing up all night. And then after that, like it was never the same.
And so like, I do think, I don’t think it was one thing for her. I think it was definitely her lip tie. There’s tightness. Like I, I, and when we got it looked at, they’re like, yeah, it’s like, what is it like a grade four or something? It was like super tight. Yeah. And. So basically it was, I don’t think it’s just one thing, but I was like, there’s, it’s just not a coincidence.
I just like, don’t feel like that’s a coincidence. And she, cause she also was covered in eczema after that. Except for her face, her whole body was covered. And I was like, this is not just so like, I still decide to do the release. Cause I was like, I think this is the right thing to do based on knowledge I have, but I did still have to address my gut health.
So then I did a soul test worked on my gut health. I will say that with a lot of our clients, digestive enzymes for the baby have been A lifesaver. I don’t know if you’ve ever utilized those, but they, they tend to help a lot of baby. I didn’t like, who knows? Mostly we’re working with the moms because of like gut issues.
So that’s probably the connection there. But I really like the smidge ones and I’ll just like, I just use like a quarter open up the capsule, like a quarter cap, a quarter of the cap. And I don’t do it before every time I fed her, but I did it. Probably like three times a day before I wanted to put her down for a nap.
And it was the only thing that would like, let me put her down. It’s just tricky if you know, my babies typically don’t take bottles. So I had to like put it in a syringe with a little bit of breast milk, but we’ve had a lot of people do that. And it, it kinda, it doesn’t solve the root issue, but if I, we have a lot of people like, how can I like relieve some symptoms?
And I just, I knew that I knew the probiotic probably wouldn’t be a good fit because of my good health history. So if someone’s not having success with that, would you ever? Do a digestive enzyme.
[00:37:18] Therese Dansby: Yeah. That’s a good question. Did you do it before she started solid? So you were just doing, yeah.
[00:37:22] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. I only did it for like, I probably did it for like a month and a half and then everything, like everything started to get better.
[00:37:29] Therese Dansby: Yeah. And that’s a good point. I, I often recommend moms take digestive enzymes for sure, but I’ve not directly done it with babies before starting solids. After starting solids, I have, but I, you know, I think as long as you’re doing, like you said, like that tiny little dose, because they make baby lactate basically, you know, the lactase enzymes, they make those for babies.
So, you know, and like I said, the milk should, should contain it, but obviously when, when other things are going on, there’s. You know, your body needs some help. So,
[00:38:03] Amanda Montalvo: yeah, our IBCLC actually recommended it. And I was like, I never even thought to do that, honestly. And no, it was like probably one of the biggest things that helped like, as far as like, so that we could sleep, you know?
Yeah.
[00:38:16] Therese Dansby: Yeah. I will have to keep
[00:38:17] Amanda Montalvo: that in my
[00:38:18] Therese Dansby: back pocket because I feel like. In the NICU, one of the meds we used to give, I don’t, I don’t think they give it anymore, was Reglan. And so it increases the gastric emptying time so that this milk is hanging out for a shorter amount of time. And I would kind of think that digestive enzymes would do the same thing, just kind of help it move along a little bit faster.
[00:38:39] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah. So that, but I basically, like, I, I think one of the most popular things is a probiotic recommendation and I just find, you know, that I don’t think that’s going to help a lot of. People know,
[00:38:51] Therese Dansby: you know, that some probiotics can facilitate histamine release. And just if you’re supplementing something that they don’t need supplementing in, then you’re getting an imbalance and it could make their reflux worse too.
So I definitely don’t love probiotics blindly, unless you know, mom got those antibiotics and you want to start with like a bifidobacteria, yeah. But there was also something I know a, well, I have a flow truck, like if you had .
[00:39:23] Amanda Montalvo: Okay. So you have to, I’ll send it to you. You have to like send it to me. Yeah.
Because I’ll think that’s the tricky part with reflux is like there are Mm-Hmm. And then, because then now we’re gonna talk about food allergies, which, yes. It’s so funny. And I, I, my I-B-C-L-C was amazing, but the first thing she wanted me to do was eliminate food. And I was like, ma’am. Over my dead body, like unless it’s like, that can’t be our first intervention.
Like it just can’t, but it does make a really big difference for a lot of babies. So can you talk, you talked a little bit about this with like the chemical reactions. Can you talk about how that contributes to reflux? And then like, you know, a lot of people ask, like, can changing my diet help minimize my baby’s reflux?
Yeah,
[00:40:01] Therese Dansby: Yeah. And I’m in the same boat. I, sometimes I get moms that right off the bat are like, should I cut out dairy? Can I cut out dairy? And it’s kind of like, well, if you want to, and you have this gut feeling that you need to bite, you can do anything you want, you know, but for most moms, it’s overwhelming.
And then of course it limits your nutrient intake and things like that. Um, I know with my oldest, I had primarily already been gluten and dairy free, and he was born in the summer, and I was postpartum, and I was craving like an ice cream sundae, so I got one, and then he like, pooped blood the next day. Oh!
So, you know, very clear, like, we’re not gonna do that. That was a bad choice. And I think, I only made like two freezer meals with him, and one, because, again, because I was mostly dairy free, I had made these like, Tofu stuffed shells. I feel like my diet has changed so much, but, and again I’m like, tofu? It’s a race.
Who are you? I know. It was like 11 years ago. And so, and again, the night that I warmed that up and ate it, he just cried like all night. So there are things like that where you know, you’re like, okay, that’s very clear correlation. Like, we’re not, we’re gonna cut out that food. And that was not hard for me to do because I had, Been doing that previously, but it can get very overwhelming for a lot of moms to cut out foods.
And I don’t love it to be the first step, even with, so I’m trying to think where to start. So often more than one thing is going on. We usually do want to rule out the physical causes. So does the baby have too much volume and too small of a tummy? So we’re looking at how much. They’re getting in, whether it’s by breast or bottle.
We’re looking at how frequently they’re eating. We’re looking at oversupply, overactive letdown. We’re looking at oral tides. We’re looking at body tension. Are they swallowing air? Are you feeding them in a position that is just. not conducive to, you know, gravity helping out. Are you feeding them in a position that’s putting a lot of pressure on their tummy?
And I do all I have also here in a physical cause that we didn’t talk about as a really quick aside, pyloric stenosis. Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, I do. I do also. Yeah. Call your doctor immediately if your baby is projectile vomiting after every feed and people are like what is projectile? I’m like you will know it’s like a cartoon like projectile vomit after every feed.
Usually it peaks between 2 and 12 weeks. So you’re, we talked about those valves in the stomach that um, Pyloric stenosis is where that valve between the stomach and the small intestine is like, there’s, it’s narrower, and so what’s happening is just that the, all the stomach contents are coming out all at once because that sphincter spasms because it can’t.
And in the first few weeks, you’d always see it because babies are eating such a small volume. Yeah. But if your baby’s projectile vomiting and it’s all milk, like it’s not bio, it’s not green. It’s all milk. Also, if your baby’s vomiting blood or they’re vomiting like coffee grounds, which is old blood.
That’s always an emergency to the doctor. So just that caveat, but back to the physical causes, that’s an extreme physical cause, but all the other ones, we want to rule those out first, because those are a lot easier to fix. Even if it’s something like bodywork or a phrenectomy that takes time. They’re still easier to deal with than the chemical causes.
So then chemical, we talked about the microbiome. We talked about breast milk versus formula and digesting the breast milk and things like that. And then what you kind of are left with is either true food allergies or, and that’s some, that’s a connection that I’m still trying to work on. But. I do think that histamine is in your breast milk.
They can’t test it because it breaks down quickly. But I think if mom has high histamine, she’s passing it on to baby. And then there are, of course, foods that are high histamine, which also tend to overlap with foods that are allergens. And it gets really messy. But so the most extreme food allergies. can be IGE, which is your classic, more anaphylactic type spectrum allergies, where a test is going to come back positive, your baby’s having a very obvious reaction that involves sweat, facial swelling, breathing, sometimes vomiting can be a part of that.
But then there are non IGE allergies. And F Pies and F Pi A P can fall into that, and those are, these are again, the most extreme, right? Most babies are going to be like farther back on the spectrum, but F Pies is food protein induced enterocolitis syndrome, and it is, it is vomiting after consuming very specific foods, and Some babies can’t have FPIES through mom’s breast milk, even with the broken down proteins, and some babies don’t get it till you start solids.
And unfortunately, some of the biggest FPIES triggers are some of the earliest solid foods. Things like eggs or things like avocado and banana, things like yogurt.
So that’s, again, the projectile vomiting is different than reflux, definitely need to check that out. FPI’s can also cause, like, baby’s blood pressure to drop and things like that. So, again, these are the most severe things. The FPIAP is the food protein induced, um, allergic proctocolitis, and that is where the babies are pooping blood, whether it’s a lot or a little, whether it’s old or new.
So, Oftentimes these babies also have horrible diaper rushes whenever they’re, you know, even if there’s not visible blood and I think that my son did follow both of my kids that had reflex, I think fell into this because the one obviously, like I said, he had blood in his diaper the next day. The other one, he would get really bad diaper rashes the day after he would have one of those Sandifer’s episodes.
So I think we were just kind of dealing with a lesser form of it. Um, but food allergies and sensitivities, they are real and it’s, everybody’s tolerance level for them is different. Um, sometimes it’s like, spitty. or they have a diaper rash, but we can improve it with this cream, then, you know, keep on keeping on.
Um, other people like me, my baby was waking up like every 45 minutes. I just throughout the night for months. I don’t know how you did it. Yeah. Well, and that’s why we hit five months and I was like, we had done the body work. We had done the, Ectomy. We had done the digestive enzymes and the probiotics, you know, and it was like it was just getting worse and not better.
And that’s when for me, I was like, we, something else has to give. And so, yeah, and it was very stressful to start an elimination diet, but it turns out one of his allergens was corn. And there are. like literally no corn free formulas. So even had I obviously I was gonna breastfeed through it because it was my third baby and this is just not because I felt like I needed to but because I wanted to I wanted to keep breastfeeding through this and but even if I had wanted to just Give a bottle.
I don’t think that I could have. Yeah. So that’s a very tough place to be in for a mom who’s not as motivated as I was or who hasn’t had, yeah, or just hasn’t had that past breast feeding success to know what that even looks like. So it’s very overwhelming, but it can make a huge, I mean, night and day difference.
Like my son, when we finally cut out all of his allergens, which took a while, he started sleeping, you know, just. And you started sleeping. Yeah, yeah, yes. And so, I think that if my mom has a gut feeling that food allergies are part of it, I think it’s not unreasonable, especially as an interim measure.
We’re not saying you need to cut out all these foods for the rest of your life, but, I mean, if you’re desperate for an hour long stretch of sleep, you will, you will cut out the milk if you need to.
[00:48:19] Amanda Montalvo: At least I did. And I think it’s like, so yeah, that’s also like a very, it’s not a very invasive intervention.
Like to me, it might feel invasive because I’m like, I don’t want to like, and like to some people it may feel invasive, but I would say like, like, it’s not a procedure. It’s not something you’re leaving the house for. It’s something you can do at home. And that’s kind of like, How I view the body work stuff, because I mean, really, it’s like, just keep your kid out of containers and learn how to, you know, massage their bodies, move them around, put them in good positions, breastfeed them in good position.
It’s just like a way of living. It’s not really like, you know, you don’t have to become a massage therapist. I, it’s like, that’s a great low, low risk intervention. And then it’s like, if you, again, like moms are usually right. And I cannot tell you most of our baby reflux moms, they’re like, I think I have Candida.
And like, I’m like, But, and they maybe have a couple signs. I’m like, I don’t wanna just do, if you have candida, that means you have other stuff because it’s the last thing that grows. So I’m like, we have to do a stool test, but it, and then like, it’ll come back with candida. Like, it’s crazy. Yeah. It’s like they, that’s
[00:49:18] Therese Dansby: crazy.
[00:49:18] Amanda Montalvo: They really know. I, I mean, I felt like I knew what was going on. I was like, I mean, it’s not a coincidence. I got this. Food poisoning. And I think it was a histamine reaction because the eczema she had all over her too. So it’s like, it’s probably more than one thing. And if eliminating foods helps you and you feel like that that’s important, like do it.
I just, I hate seeing moms deteriorate their own health and it’s not helping and they’re still not sleeping and they’re so, so stressed. And then they start having their own health issues. And then they’re like, how am I supposed to take care of my baby that like is colicky or whatever, you know, like, yeah, so.
It’s, you know, I think it’s something to experiment with. Be mindful of if you feel like it’s like going to make a difference for you. And you actually have a cookbook for allergen free recipes that I’m going to link. So if you’re a mom, that’s like, Oh my gosh, I’m in that boat, but it is really stressful for me to eliminate these foods.
I do not know what to eat. I’m going to link that in the show notes for you guys. Yeah. And
[00:50:18] Therese Dansby: I made that kind of in the thick of it because. It is. We don’t get takeout that often, but I didn’t realize how stressful it would be to never have that option. Yeah. Even if it’s just one meal a week. Just one meal a week.
Or just to be out of the house and like, if we’re gone for too long, we can swing by Chipotle. I mean, it was, it was incredibly stressful. And so I do have that cookbook and it’s food that all of my, my whole family ate. And so it’s, you know, toddler and school edge get approved and, um, I made a little two week meal plan too, because it is very, very hard.
I, and I will say, even though I did that, and even though the tipping point was for me, like pros outweigh the cons, I am still recovering from that because he was, and with the, the food poisoning connection is interesting because one of his allergens was chicken and chicken was the thing that, you know, I’m going to do a poll.
I’m going to do a poll. I know. Yes. Please do. Yes, and also one of the foods that I eat consistently when I was recovering was eggs and eggs are what he had like an IGE reaction to. So it’s very interesting. It’s like, yeah, warm up your leftovers all the way. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so I don’t even know where I was going with that.
I think, one thing that I, Oh, the cutting, uh, yeah.
[00:51:39] Amanda Montalvo: Yeah, like, basically, it’s like if it’s, if you want to do it, there’s, there’s ways you can get help with doing it, but it’s, I don’t know, it’s not like my first recommendation, like you said, unless someone’s like, I eliminate, usually we’re getting people after they’ve already done that and it didn’t do anything.
So basically, if someone’s like, Oh my gosh, where do you, you went through, like, first you focus on the physical things, right? And like, kind of chipping away, obviously, like the breastfeeding piece, like, is, is it oversupply? Is it a really strong let down? Like baby’s latch, all that kind of stuff, which I think makes the most sense.
And then, you know, coming to that area last, unless you feel like it’s something that’s happening sooner or things are more severe, like with your son, like you’re, um, Uh, youngest one. So one thing that I did get asked about a lot is like, what can moms do for symptom relief as they’re working towards rebalancing and those root cause issues?
Is there anything like homeopathy, anything for like feeding schedules? Obviously that’s going to look different for everyone, but like, like what could they be asking their IBCLC about basically? Um, what would you recommend?
[00:52:44] Therese Dansby: Yeah, I think it is important. I’m. And IBCLC is very, very conservative about pre and post weights.
I almost never do them because I feel like they just cause more problems. I’m a big fan of feeding on demand. However, we have a baby that’s constantly crying. You do need to do a pre and post feeding weight should make sure that they’re getting enough because sometimes they’re not. That was my first son’s other problem.
I, what did he have? reflux or was he hungry? Because he was in the 10th percentile and I always had a very marginal supply with him. Then he started solids and he went up to like the 90th percentile. And I was like, Oh my gosh, was I starving you? Like, I bet you I bet him all the time. But he was such a slow milk transfer.
But you know, so definitely rule out it. feeding too much or too little if you have a baby that’s crying all the time. And then I’m glad you mentioned containers because that’s a big thing too. Like, are you putting them on the floor on their tummy so they can stretch things out, you know, tummy time, or are they.
And a little reclining seat all the time. And I’m not bashing those because when you have more than one kid, like you need a seat to put them in, but are they spending all their time in it? Yes, absolutely. But, or are they spending all their time in like a jumper type thing before their core, you know, their torso really has enough control to be in it.
And are, if you’re baby wearing, are you baby wearing correctly? Because some people are just really slumped over in their carrier too. So we, we roll out all of those things. And then. Somebody did ask me about gas jobs. And this is again, I’m just still very biased by my personal experience. So the earthly gas jobs, I love them.
I would take them for myself when you’re like, Oh, I just like yeah, sir. They consistently made my son worse. Oh, like he would burp, but then he would wake up later screaming. And I never made the history though. Cause it has ginger in it. Yep. Yeah. That’s exactly where I was going. Yeah. So I think there’s also a huge just to me piece, which maybe you and I will need to talk about on my podcast.
I know there is. There is. And I have so many
[00:54:50] Amanda Montalvo: client examples. We can definitely do that,
[00:54:52] Therese Dansby: but
[00:54:52] Amanda Montalvo: yeah.
[00:54:53] Therese Dansby: So, so I think ginger, you know, maybe avoid ginger with a baby. If you think that’s a problem, would you agree? Cause ginger is, is it histamine liberating or is it high histamine?
[00:55:04] Amanda Montalvo: I don’t think we really fully know.
I think it’s a, probably a little bit of both. Like I find most people that I work with that are histamine, you like, don’t do great with ginger, whether they’re like kids or babies or adults, I think it’s It’s, and it sucks because it’s really good for inflammation, which is great for histamines, but it’s like, yeah, yeah.
So I would, I would avoid that if you think there could be. And like, if you’re kind of like, how do I know if there’s like maybe a histamine connection? It’s you, if they have skin issues that often go along with eczema, like that’s when it’s like there could be a histamine connection and that’s when you maybe want to steer clear of that and like probiotics.
Things like that. Yeah.
[00:55:38] Therese Dansby: And that’s where I would say you would look for foods too. It’s not just screaming or reflux symptoms, but like, are there rashes? Are there red? Some babies will just get like puffy eyes, you know, just like, Oh, my baby looks different today than they did yesterday. That’s when you go more down the food path.
But I will say though, I love fennel tea. I mean, it’s like the original gripe water. It’s so easy to make. I love the taste of it. Actually. It doesn’t taste licorice y, I don’t think. Not like the fennel bulb does. So it’s just a teaspoon of fennel seeds brewed in a cup of hot water. You can drink it as the mom or you can let it cool and give a teaspoon to the baby.
It’s really good. Obviously with, you know, exclusively breastfed babies under six months, we don’t want to give them like water and lots of other things that are not milk. But, but a teaspoon, you know, three times a day is going to be fine. So fennel tea or dill tea or chamomile tea, then we’re talking like just that one ingredient and the hot water.
Give your baby a teaspoon. Those can help. Do you ever use aloe? You know, I’ve not used it in a baby. I have used I have used marshmallow root powder though. Oh,
[00:56:45] Amanda Montalvo: okay. That’s another really good one. To kind of coat, like coat the esophagus. That’s what I used the aloe for. That was the other thing. And then after, like, I learned about that the, the enzymes were definitely helping.
And then I was doing them like separate. And then I just started mixing those with the aloe instead and using it in a syringe to give her. And the aloe was like, it also was great for her skin. So aloe is one. I mean, you need to be so careful. Obviously it needs to be interleaf, no other ingredients, but interleaf, not whole leaf.
Cause I know people are going to ask, it’s just easier on digestion, but I really did feel like that worked really quickly. I didn’t, and I was like, if this doesn’t work, I’m going to do marshmallow root. So yeah, I’m
[00:57:24] Therese Dansby: happy you brought that one up. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Because And again, a lot of these things are like, we’re not solving the problem, but when you’re desperate for relief and your baby’s desperate for relief, like these are things that don’t really cause harm and they can’t help.
So the chamomile and the dough and the fennel will help the baby like burp or poop because sometimes it’s like the baby is constipated. Like we said with plumbing, constipation can eventually cause spit up. Yeah. So those teas can help with that too. And then the marshmallow and the aloe are going to coat the esophagus so that when the content of the stomach come back up, it’s not as painful.
Yeah, so those are great. And then homeopathy. Like I said, I’m a huge, I’m a huge fan of it. I think that when you find the right one, it can just make things so much better. Yeah, I will say if you suspect food, Intolerances, you might want to get that. I’m not going to pronounce it right, but like the oleos brand of homeopathy, it’s in a green tube.
So it’s not the bow iron one that’s blue. Yeah. I’ll put this, I’m going to make like a little cheat
[00:58:30] Amanda Montalvo: sheet for this episode.
[00:58:30] Therese Dansby: Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, the oleos one, you can get it on Amazon. I can find it at natural grocers locally as well. That’s made out of beet sugar instead of lactose. And so I definitely recommend that just if you remotely think that your baby could be reacting to milk.
Yeah. So the, the book, there are a lot of homeopathy books out there. This is the one I have. It’s not even meant for babies. It’s like the whole family homeopathic self care by Robert Ullman and Judith Ullman. And here, this is the college chapter. So I can read you like their summary. And then if you want to ask about any specific ones, but this is the list that I used kind of worked my way through.
And I don’t recommend googling it. I recommend getting a book because homeopathy is kind of hard. Interesting and that it’s very personalized to the symptoms and like the, the kind of disposition of the baby and things that make it better, things that make it worse. So if you just Google like homeopathy for reflux, you may or may not get a lot of.
details. So this little paragraph here says, if the baby can’t seem to tolerate milk, first think of, I’m going to butcher all of these names, by the way, I’m terrible. Yeah. If the baby can’t seem to tolerate milk, first think of a through jet, then magnesium phosphorica. And that magposs was like magic for my child.
We like. Yeah, the calciare carbonica is also a popular one, especially if the baby’s like chubby and happy most of the time, or homeopathy, homeopathy, I should have done that one. Yeah. Or if your baby has a sweaty head, like,
[01:00:12] Amanda Montalvo: Oh my gosh, I didn’t know that. See? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. That’s like my baby to a tee.
[01:00:18] Therese Dansby: Yeah, yeah. There you go. Yep. If there’s a tendency toward frequent belching and the baby seems to feel better after burping, carbovegetable VE tablet is likely to be needed. So that’s a baby with just excessive gas, you know, on both ends. Mm-Hmm. . Um, for colic, an extremely fussy, irritable babies, especially if they arch their backs and are inconsolable, consider Camila.
Mm-Hmm. . If the baby’s doubling over, bringing their knees to the chest, thinking of coy or magnesia. Phospho. And then for colic with excessive floating and gas. Particularly if the baby seems worse after ingesting milk, look at Magnesia Phosphorica. That’s like the, the summary. I can list them really quick here.
It’s Ethusia, Calciara Torbonica, Carbo Vegetabilis, Camomilla, Colosynthus, Lycopodium, Magnesia Phosphorica, the Nux Mammica is for baby that’s Really often, actual stuff is coming up. Pulsatilla is one option as well. So those are kind of where I would start. If you feel like you want a homeopathic remedy, look into those.
See which one kind of fits your baby the best. And I often tell parents to make it super easy. Three pellets of 30C every three hours. For you can do it up to three days and see if it’s helping. I’m not a homeopath. That’s not medical advice, but it’s often the easiest way for moms to like, remember. Yeah.
[01:01:49] Amanda Montalvo: Engage, like give it consistently enough to see like, is this actually working or not? Okay.
[01:01:54] Therese Dansby: Yeah. And you can, I, it says the book says three pellets. You can even do one pellet though for a tiny baby. And Mash it up between two spoons. So let’s, yeah, that’s what I did. And you can either like wipe it in their cheek or you can dissolve it in a tiny bit of milk and give them a spoonful.
Yeah. If it works,
[01:02:13] Amanda Montalvo: it works really well. Yeah. I’d like, I feel it and it’s okay if you have to do a combination. Like I think the, the aloe vera and the homeopathy, the homeopathy didn’t help as much as the enzymes in the aloe for us, but I also definitely should have tried the calciero one. Cause Again, like I was going off, I mean, like our IBC, the LC recommended it.
You messaged me and you let me know, you’re like, this one was really good for, oh yeah, these reflux. So many people said the Magnesia one, like that was like number one. So we started with that, but that, I think those are, It’s like, those are helpful ways, especially if someone’s like, I’m not ready to go the medication route yet and I want to try other things.
It’s like, you could consider trying those. I would, I seriously just think it’s not easy. And I know not everyone has like access to getting an IBCLC, but it’s like, instead of, Like if you’re going to start like spending money on a bunch of different things, I would, I would just honestly get an expert opinion.
It like try to see if you can get a recommendation for an IBCLC near you. Do you have friends that have had babies with similar experiences? Like ask them, who do they work with? And then, I mean, I found mine through my dentist, so it’s, Like trying to get a good resource. I think it’s worth it. I think it’s 100 percent worth it to help.
You need someone to help you navigate it. Like you just heard us go through, like, it’s not easy. I’m going to, I’ll put a cheat sheet. I’ll make a cheat sheet for this episode. So I’ll connect with you, Teresa, and getting that, that awesome chart that you made and everything. But I, I hope this is helpful for everyone.
Even there’s still probably a lot more that we could get into, honestly, but. I appreciate your time and expertise so much. We basically answered all the IG questions already, like going, basically like going through it. So I think we don’t have to like touch base on those specifically, and you already talked about the tummy drops, but I hope this gives people a place to start.
[01:04:01] Therese Dansby: I do want to say it’s one of those questions I think was about positioning, right? Like I can’t hold my baby up right. Oh
[01:04:07] Amanda Montalvo: yeah. Like I can’t. After, basically like at night for like sleeping.
[01:04:11] Therese Dansby: Yes, and so I think maybe one of the T’s that we talked about, or one of the homeopathies, if you can get that burp out of them, that might help.
Also, now, safe sleep is important. No, you know, no blankets and pillows around your baby, etc, etc. If you practice stomach sleeping with them during the day when you’re awake and in the same room as them, they’re more likely to tolerate it at night. I think that tummy naps can be really helpful for babies with reflux.
Again, it just helps with that gastric emptying and often just the pressure on the tummy helps with comfort. Also laying your baby on their left side is going to empty their stomach a little bit faster and it’s going to keep you. The way that the stomach is shaped, it’s going to keep the milk kind of away from the esophagus if they’re on their left side.
So I did want to give that caveat too.
[01:05:02] Amanda Montalvo: That, that’s like exactly how I
[01:05:04] Therese Dansby: would sleep with
[01:05:05] Amanda Montalvo: them. Maya, that’s so funny. And if your baby wakes up, if they fall asleep on you and you’re like, I want to put them down for a tummy nap. If they wake up when you put them down. Rub their butt a little bit, and I’m going to go into this more with the episode with Emily, but the butt grabs the butt is everything and it can help get them back to sleep.
Cause I know that’s like a big thing is like, I tried to put them down and now like they’re not asleep. But you know, that’s, it’s like very tricky, but we’ll have a lot of sleep tips too with that episode, but thank you. for bringing that up. Cause that’s like a tricky one. Is there anything else you want to leave people with?
[01:05:38] Therese Dansby: No, I mean, just an apology for being all over the place, but I think. I think you
[01:05:44] Amanda Montalvo: did a good job. I feel like we covered every, there’s a lot. This is basically, I asked Teresa to do this. I was like, I know this is like basically an impossible episode to record, but it’s important. And I, and it’s like, I think we did it, you know, as good as possible without like visuals and stuff.
[01:05:59] Therese Dansby: Yes, and I think that if something in here resonates with you, then yeah, find somebody who can dig into it more with you because if you’re just getting, oh, it’s colic or oh, here’s a reflex med, I think the premise of this episode is that obviously there are a lot more causes and then therefore a lot more ways to treat it than you might have been presented with.
[01:06:19] Amanda Montalvo: Yes. And so let us know if you found this episode helpful. I’m going to link Teresa’s website. She also has a podcast, milk and motherhood got to plug the podcast. I love it. I personally love it as a mom and I don’t like a lot of mom things. Well, thank you. You know, you know, it’s like, I’m just like, can’t relate.
Can’t relate. So I really enjoy your podcast. It’s, it’s an awesome resource. I’ll link the allergen free cookbook that she has her website. And then she does have a breastfeeding course. So if you’re like, Like I, one of my people, my very close friend in my life is pregnant right now. And like, that’s going to be my gift to her is the breastfeeding course.
Cause I’m like, she’s like, what do I really need? I’m like, you need, you need to learn about this before you’re first. And you need to have a place with a lot of resources. Like if something goes wrong, you know, so if you are. If obviously if someone’s listening to this, they probably already have a baby, but if you’re looking for someone in your life and they’ve asked you about it, like I highly recommend Teresa’s course and then I’ll link your Instagram as well.
It’s like, do you want to say it out? So
[01:07:20] Therese Dansby: sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m going to mess it up. Yeah, I know my podcast is called milk and motherhood. And then my private practice business is called happy mama, healthy baby. So my Instagram is at happy. mama. healthy. bb. And I did want to say, I did just start a Facebook group too.
So for people who have purchased any, either my course or my cookbooks. They can always pop in there and say, Hey, I listened to this episode, like, which homeopathy did you say would help with, you know, with this, obviously we can’t give medical advice in those kinds of groups, but we can definitely clarify.
And my course does go through about 20 different troubleshooting things. And one of them is reflux and one of them is oral ties. So these things hopefully will be on people’s radar, not that you need to be an expert in everything before you have a baby, but it’s good to have heard of these things because then you can come back and say, okay, I’m not alone.
I’m not crazy. Someone else knows what I’m talking about.
[01:08:16] Amanda Montalvo: Or to have a resource, like my thinking is I’m like, okay, if she has any issues, breastfeeding, obviously she can text me and I can be like, this is what you need to look into. But it’s like, Ultimately, it’s really nice to just be like, okay, let me just watch this video, this lesson on like reflux or oral, you know, just to get like a expert opinion and just to not Google it.
You know, there’s a lot of Googling happening early postpartum and it’s like, that was like my goals. Like, I’m like, this is how I’m going to provide you stress free postpartum. So I highly recommend checking out all her links, Connected Trees. Let us know how you guys like this episode and the next one I’ll be digging into is Infant dynamic movement and body work with Emily Swann.
So if you want to learn more about everything that Therese and I talked about, we’ll get into that over there. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your brain. I
[01:09:04] Therese Dansby: think this
[01:09:04] Amanda Montalvo: is gonna be a
[01:09:04] Therese Dansby: gift to a lot of moms who are feeling a little bit, a little bit unheard.
[01:09:09] Amanda Montalvo: Yes, for sure. So I’m, I’m very grateful that you could help me put this together.
Ah, thank you for having me. Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of the RU Menstrual Podcast. If you want to support my work, please leave a review and let me know how you like the episode. This lets me know like what you guys want more of, less of. I read every single one and I appreciate them more than you know.
If you want to keep learning, you can get access to the bonus episode and additional resources on patreon. com forward slash hormone healing RD. I’d love to have you in there. Thanks again. And I will see you in the next episode.
