In this episode, I am joined by Taylor Goldberg to discuss all things hypermobility. This is a diagnosis that I have seen in an increasing number of clients, so I’m excited to have Taylor on and educate more on the topic. We previously discussed hypermobility in the two MCAS episodes with Michelle Shapiro. I’ll link them below!
Taylor is a Chiropractor-turned Virtual Hypermobility Coach who helps people struggling with hypermobility (and related conditions) navigate the newness and unknowns of HSD/hEDS, enabling them to understand their body’s unique needs and regain a fulfilling life. In addition to assisting clients with hypermobility, she recently launched a course aimed at helping clinicians better understand how to assist their hypermobile patients. Taylor possesses a unique perspective rooted in her education and personal experiences with hypermobility, which has driven her to initiate changes not only within the hypermobility community but also within the chiropractic field. She recently introduced a mentorship program called ‘Clinical Concepts,’ where they delve into the drawbacks of one-size-fits-all chiropractic practices and underscore the significance of an evidence-based approach to treatment and self-care.
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MCAS podcast episode with Michelle Shapiro part 1
MCAS podcast episode with Michelle Shapiro part 2
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Listen Now
Amanda Montalvo [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Are You Menstrual podcast, where we dive deep into all things women’s health to support you on your healing journey. I’m Amanda Montalvo, functional and integrative dietitian, also known as the Hormone healing Rd. If you enjoyed this podcast and you want to keep learning, check out the podcast Patreon, where I share a bonus episode with additional downloadable resources. Each week you can go to patreon.com, hormonehealingrdez or check out the link in the show notes. All right. In this episode, I am joined by Taylor Goldberg to discuss all things hypermobility. This is something, when Taylor first got on, we were talking about how I just see it all the time now. Like one of my really good friends got diagnosed with it and I was just like, I was learning about it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:00:48]:
Interesting. And then all of a sudden it’s like we have this mass influx of clients that now have the diagnosis. Cause I think it’s just being talked about a lot more now. Like another one of those great things about social media. People are like just raising awareness and then people try to investigate it, and some get a diagnosis and get help, some don’t. But I am really excited to have Taylor on because this is a topic where, I mean, like you just said, it affects 80% of women, which is insane. That is a very large number. And there’s a spectrum.
Amanda Montalvo [00:01:18]:
So we’ll talk about all that before everyone starts to freak out. And if you haven’t listened to my episodes with Michelle, there’s a two part series and it’s all about the trifecta of like mass cell activation pots or dysautonomia and hypermobility. So I am going to link those below. We’ll probably reference some things that I’ll lead you to those episodes for. But if you’re wanting to learn more about Taylor, she is a chiropractor by trade. She’s now a virtual hypermobility coach who helps people struggling with hypermobility and just any sort of related conditions to that navigate the newness and unknowns of HSD and HEds and just helps them understand their body’s unique needs regain a fulfilling life. The other really cool part that I think is really important that you do now is that you launched a course to help clinicians better understand how to help their hypermobile clients, especially, like, I just think of, it’s like I go to a chiropractor that specifically works with women, you know, and I’m like, does he know? Like, does he. I mean, he may very well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:02:21]:
I just don’t have hypermobility, so I’ve never asked, but it’s really important. And I. So if you are a chiropractor listening to this, I would definitely check that out. I’m gonna link the clinician course in the resources below. And then Taylor also has a unique perspective rooted in her education, but also personal experiences with hypermobility. Cause you yourself have struggled with that as well. And that has driven her to initiate changes not only within this community, but also within the chiropractic field. So I can’t wait to.
Amanda Montalvo [00:02:52]:
We’ll definitely talk more about your clinician program because I know that chiropractors listen to this podcast, or if someone wants to share it with their own chiropractor, if they have concerns, I think that’s also helpful, too. But thank you, Taylor, for being here.
Taylor Goldberg [00:03:05]:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to talk today.
Amanda Montalvo [00:03:10]:
Let’s just talk about your story. Like, how so you. You go to school to become a chiropractor? Like, that’s a big deal, right? That takes a long time. It’s a lot of work. And now you’ve transformed to really focusing on, like, online hypermobility coaching. How did this happen? Like, what did you learn during that time?
Taylor Goldberg [00:03:26]:
Yeah, so let’s back up a little bit farther. When I first found out about hypermobility, I have a very unique story. Most people within this population don’t really know about their condition until they’re much older. My mom actually got diagnosed when I was really little, and so she was looking out for signs and symptoms in me and was able to get me help at a very young age. I was actually in second grade when I was first in occupational therapy for my hand, hypermobility specifically. And so I knew I was hypermobile going into Cairo school, and part of the reason I wanted to be a chiropractor, really part of the reason why I wanted to be in healthcare and help people, was because of the work I did with a lot of different types of clinicians because of my hypermobility as a kid. So I ended up in chiropractic school, knew I was hypermobile, did not want anybody else to know that I did not want to be that girl, if you will. And I also did not really realize the broad spectrum and how it really can affect us systemically.
Taylor Goldberg [00:04:32]:
At the time, I really only thought it was musculoskeletal nature, not much more in chiral school, if we’re being completely honest. They don’t teach us much about hypermobility. We had one PowerPoint in my entire schooling on heds, and it was the typical picture that you see with the very, very stretchy skin, and it is always the extreme versions, never about the spectrum, which I think is a big, big problem in education right now. And they tell us that adjusting hypermobile humans is contraindicated. They tell us that about one time, and that’s it. My professors also knew I was hypermobile. And it’s funny, because when we would do adjustments in class and palpation in class, I would always, for my peers from my colleagues, from my professors, they’d be like, you’re really bendy. Be like, yeah.
Taylor Goldberg [00:05:24]:
And they would still adjust. And so the reason I’m saying this is because Cairo schools, and this is not unique to Cairo schools, this is medical schools. This is physical therapy. This is occupational therapy. They are not educating enough and showing the impact of what doing certain treatments on a hypermobile body can really, really do. So now I’m in my third year of chiral school, and I have probably been adjusted every single day by this point. And I ended up having a neck adjustment that ended up putting me in a really, really scary position. I ended up having some neuro symptoms that were not fun.
Taylor Goldberg [00:06:07]:
And that is kind of when I realized, okay, I need to start taking my hypermobility more seriously. And so I started diving into it a little bit more. This also happened to be right around when Covid was hitting, and so social media was kind of booming at this time. So I started to just post about it on TikTok, and that’s kind of where I. How I got to where I am today.
Amanda Montalvo [00:06:28]:
Okay, that’s super interesting. So you kind of entered the chiropractic journey, not quite realizing how much the negative impact the adjustments could have. And did you see a chiro when you were growing up?
Taylor Goldberg [00:06:41]:
I did see a chiro when I was growing up, but he was a more rehab focused Cairo, and he never adjusted my neck, so I didn’t really think much of it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:06:52]:
Yeah, and we are definitely going to talk about the neck piece for sure, because that is, like, one area you have to be so, so careful. And again, there’s different types of hypermobility. Right. There is a spectrum. That’s really cool that it’s, like, come full circle for you, and now you’re helping other chiropractors and just people in the field helping hypermobility patients learn more, because it is. It’s like you don’t get a lot of education on it. You could really, really hurt someone, and no one wants to intentionally do that. Right? Like, there should be more education, I would say.
Amanda Montalvo [00:07:25]:
It’s not really the fault of the chiropractor. It’s, like the fault of the schooling. So it’s like, hopefully, you can help change that. Well, now everyone knows that they have it. Like, a lot of people. I mean, people even know what to ask for with testing and stuff. I think it’s really great. And let’s talk about that now.
Amanda Montalvo [00:07:42]:
Let’s talk about what is hypermobility, and how does it impact our health, and then how does someone get diagnosed with it?
Taylor Goldberg [00:07:50]:
Yeah. So hypermobility is actually just a symptom, and all it means is that your joint goes past the designated end range that humans are supposed to have. Hypermobility is a symptom for a lot of different things. What we’re really talking about today is connective tissue disorders. But when we think of hypermobility, we need to know that there’s four different types of there’s peripheral hypermobility, meaning it’s only affecting your hands and your feet. There’s localized hypermobility, meaning it’s only affecting one spot in your body. Maybe you have one double jointed shoulder or one double jointed thumb, but nothing else in your body is hypermobile. There is historical hypermobility, meaning you were hypermobile, but you no longer are.
Taylor Goldberg [00:08:34]:
And then there’s generalized joint hypermobility, which means you have five or more joints that go past their end range. Generalized joint hypermobility is what we’re going to be talking about today, and it can split into two different sections, asymptomatic and symptomatic. It’s so important to know that asymptomatic generalized joint hypermobility exists. This means that you could be really bendy, and you have no issues, you have no symptoms, you have no pain, no fatigue, nothing. Embrace that hypermobility. Use it to your advantage. That is. About 30% of people with GGH have asymptomatic hypermobility.
Taylor Goldberg [00:09:12]:
So hypermobility is not always something that we need to be concerned with. Majority of the time, though, it is. And so that symptomatic generalized joint hypermobility bucket can then be branched off into two categories, acquired and genetic. Acquired means we got it from something like a sport, a traumatic event, like a car accident, things in that realm. Whereas genetic is what we’re going to call connective tissue disorders and connective tissue lines. Everything in our body, literally everything, our organs, our muscles, everything. When we have a connective tissue disorder. As I just said, it lines everything.
Taylor Goldberg [00:09:53]:
It can affect every system in our body as well, which is why it is such a wide range of spectrums. Now, there is a lot of connective tissue disorders. EDS is just one of those. Some others are Lloyd Dietz syndrome and Marfan. Those are the other two most common ones. And then as far as Eds goes, there’s 13 types of eds. This actually changed as of yesterday, but we’re still going to go with what we were doing before because it’s still just in the kind of pre stage. How it kind of works is the twelve out of the 13 types of EDS have a genetic marker.
Taylor Goldberg [00:10:33]:
So you would get a genetic connective tissue panel from a geneticist to rule out all of the other types of eds. And the only one that doesn’t have a genetic marker right now is HEds, the hypermobile Ehlers Danlos syndrome. And that is the one that is the most common. Now, there is some amazing work being done at the Norris lab, and they actually just found, or they just put out that they found a couple of genes that may be related to Heds. So that’s really exciting. And I do think this is going to change within, like, the next couple of months. All the information we’re talking about right now, I might have to come back on because it might all be new and all be different. But as of right now, how the diagnostic process for HEDs goes is, do you have generalized joint hypermobility, or five or more of your joints hypermobile? Now, any doctor can tell you this, a physical therapist can tell you this, a chiropractor can tell you this, an occupational therapist can tell you this.
Taylor Goldberg [00:11:30]:
Then the second part is, is this affecting other systems in your body? So there’s a list of specific questions, and you need to have five of those twelve. And then are you in chronic pain, or are you experiencing joint subluxations, other musculoskeletal symptoms, or does somebody in your family have this? If you pass both of those two sections, then you would take that checklist to a geneticist. If you’re in the states, I know this is different in other countries, but in the states, the geneticist is going to be the easiest, best way to go about this. And then you would get a genetic connective tissue panel to rule out the other types of eds and other autoimmune disorders that might mimic eds. And that is how you can get an hads diagnosis. Now, if you don’t pass this diagnostic checklist, you may be diagnosed with something called HSD, which stands for hypermobile spectrum disorder. As of right now, HSD and hads should be treated the same. They have the same comorbidities we need to look out for.
Taylor Goldberg [00:12:33]:
They really are the same disorder in this very moment, and they should be treated with the same level of severity. So if you were diagnosed with HSD and you are self gaslighting yourself or downplaying your symptoms, please stop doing that. You deserve help just as much as if you had the other label.
Amanda Montalvo [00:12:51]:
So can I ask what the other autoimmune conditions are that can mimic the symptoms?
Taylor Goldberg [00:12:56]:
Yeah. So RA would be pretty high on that list. And then lupus is also high on that list. Those are the two most common that they will want to rule out before that they will rule in Hedsen.
Amanda Montalvo [00:13:10]:
And so as far as, like, symptoms, because it’s obviously a spectrum like what are. And it’s your. It’s all your connective tissue. So it could. It’s like. It’s like the histamine MCU stuff. It can affect any part of your body. Like, you could have.
Amanda Montalvo [00:13:24]:
Someone could have completely different symptoms, I’m guessing, and still have it. What are some of those symptoms and signs that you could possibly have hypermobility?
Taylor Goldberg [00:13:33]:
Yeah. So the biggest one is you told you were double jointed as a kid. Do you know your extra bendy? Did flexibility come easily to you? Maybe you were a gymnast or a dancer, a cheerleader, because it came easy to you. And then subluxations, which is when your joint partially comes out of its socket and then comes back in or full on dislocations, is also common in this population. Chronic, widespread joint pain is a very, very common symptom. And then as far as the systemic symptoms go, a lot of GI issues, a lot of them are going to be MCAS symptoms, because MCAS is part of the trifecta, which is dysautonomia. MCAs and Heds. Our mast cells actually live in our connective tissue, and when we have a connective tissue disorder, they can feel unsafe and send out all those chemicals.
Taylor Goldberg [00:14:24]:
And that can lead to GI issues, your skin being easily irritated, a lot of chronic fatigue, dizziness, brain fog, dysautonomia. Symptoms in general? Yeah, pretty much any. Any systemic symptom can be on the list, but the most common ones are widespread joint pain, fatigue, some form of dysautonomia, some form of hysteria.
Amanda Montalvo [00:14:52]:
Do you know what causes the fatigue?
Taylor Goldberg [00:14:55]:
There’s a lot of theories. So a lot of the things in this population, we know that there is, but we don’t know why. But I’m a firm believer that anybody in chronic pain is going to also be fatigued. And so I think this population is in a lot of pain, and that’s hard on their bodies. So that’s my personal hypothesis. But there’s a lot of different hypotheses.
Amanda Montalvo [00:15:18]:
On that specifically because we have some clients that recently got an EDS diagnosis. Like, in the genetic. I think the two out of the three are both. Two out of three are genetic, and one of them is a lot of pain, but one is not. And she just has a lot of fatigue. And I’m like, I wonder where this is coming from. Like, I have a podcast with Taylor coming up, so we’ll find out soon. I mean, I’m sure just I also think mast cell issues in general, obviously, that can lead to fatigue, too.
Taylor Goldberg [00:15:47]:
Dysautonomia, too. So dysautonomia is one of the leading causes of fatigue. So it could definitely be something in the dysautonomia realm as well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:15:56]:
Yeah, that trifect is interesting. Again, I did that two podcast episodes with Michelle on that, so definitely listen to those if you have not. And then the other big one when I was. Cause I’m in the highly sensitive body hub and Taylor had that I talked about with the episodes with Michelle that she created it. Taylor has a hypermobility course in there, and I was going through the videos again for help for our clients, and I was like, oh, wow, it makes, of course, like, the pelvic floor is impacted by this, right? And you’re more likely to have prolapse issues. And I think of the clients that we’ve had with prolapse, like postpartum and stuff like that, I’m like, I wonder if they were hypermobile. It just makes you really think and just fertility issues, because you need a healthy pelvic floor in order to get pregnant. It’s a really important part of it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:16:49]:
So I just thought that was a very interesting. And do you see a higher endometriosis population within hypermobility?
Taylor Goldberg [00:16:57]:
Yeah. So endo is a known comorbidity with hypermobility as well. So it is definitely more common in this population and pelvic floor issues in general. So what happens when you have hypermobility? So there’s a difference between hypermobility, flexibility and instability, and it’s important to know the difference. So hypermobility is when you’re joint itself goes past its end range. Flexibility is when your muscle is able to lengthen easier and instability is when your ligaments have too much laxity in them and they are no longer supporting the bones. And the bones can be moved around easily. And if instability is happening, which is very common in the hypermobile population, your body is adaptable and really tries to help you out.
Taylor Goldberg [00:17:43]:
Our body’s number one goal is to keep us alive and does a good job at that. But sometimes there are consequences to that. And so when. Let’s talk about our neck, for example, if we have ligament laxity in our neck, our muscles are going to say, hey, I need to help her out. I need to get really, really tight so that I can provide that stability that the ligaments can’t. This is the same thing that can happen in our pelvic floor. So if our pelvis is unstable, our pelvic floor might have tighten up. And a tight pelvic floor can lead to a whole array of different symptoms, including with your bladder itself, it can lead to leaking, it can lead to urgency.
Taylor Goldberg [00:18:23]:
It could also lead to a feeling of utis constantly. So these are all things that we commonly see in this population.
Amanda Montalvo [00:18:30]:
And a lot of women with Endo are also diagnosed with interstitial cystitis. And now I’m like, are they hypermobile? Like, it’s really. I wish I knew about this sooner. Like, I mean, I really learned a lot. Cause obviously, Michelle’s, like, such a big part of my life, and I. When she got sick and stuff, I don’t know how to call it. It’s not sick. But, you know, when she had.
Amanda Montalvo [00:18:51]:
She got. She shared this on her episode. She got a neck adjustment. The guy massaged it and everything. Again, she didn’t know she was, like, hypermobile or that it was, like, part of her issues. And so then that, like, you know, turned her whole world upside down. She was in the neck brace forever. But, like, that’s when I was really, like, starting to dig into it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:19:11]:
And I’m like, mandy, the comorbidities, it’s so important. And then just understanding, like, so many women with interstitial cystitis, like, they’ll try to avoid certain foods. So there’s, like, a whole theory that I see is from a lot of practitioners that I know that it is a histamine issue, a histamine response, and I’m like. And it is. I’m sure it is, in a sense, but it’s like, what is the root of that? And then you go back to the connective tissue, and that would lead you to hypermobility. So that is really interesting. I think there’s gonna be a lot of light bulbs going off for a lot of listeners right now. So that is just.
Amanda Montalvo [00:19:50]:
I think it’s. I wanted to highlight that, the pelvic floor piece. Cause I was listening to those lessons, and I was like, okay, that makes a ton of sense for the pain part. Is that because your body is compensating? Is that where the pain is typically coming from? Or is there just, like, inflammation in general?
Taylor Goldberg [00:20:07]:
So let’s just talk about pain in general and then make it specific to hypermobility. So, in my opinion, pain is always multifactorial, meaning there’s always more than one piece of the puzzle. For our pain stories, it is never as simple as you have a disc herniation. That’s why you’re in pain, or you’re hypermobile. That’s why you’re in pain. There’s always multiple pieces to our story, and that’s a really good thing because that means there’s a lot we can do for our pain. When it comes to hypermobility, specifically, there are some common themes, and one of them can be those muscles have to get so tight to provide stability for us, and they don’t have the capacity to. They fatigue very easily, and then that can lead to your body just not keeping you upright or things in that realm.
Taylor Goldberg [00:20:57]:
The other thing is that subluxations and dislocations are much more common in this population, and that can lead to pain. It can also lead to muscle spasms around the area, which can also lead to pain. The other thing in this population is we are commonly referred to as clumsy because we sometimes lack proprioception, which is where our body is in space. We also lack interception, which is. I probably said that wrong, which is how our body is actually feeling. Really understanding what your body is trying to tell you. And we sometimes ignore a lot of the things our body is telling us, not on purpose, just because we don’t really have that ability to understand what it’s trying to tell us, and that can also lead to pain. So I think it’s more than one thing always.
Taylor Goldberg [00:21:44]:
But those are some common general themes.
Amanda Montalvo [00:21:48]:
Okay. Because I’m like, I mean, I’ve been just thinking about how hard your muscles will work just to keep you safe. Like the neck example, I’m like, of course that’s going to cause pain, you know, but it’s in. But overall, it’s like, you know, then if you have mast cell symptoms, that can definitely lead to, like, exhaustion, pain, that sort of thing. But that I. That’s really interesting. It is. It’s multifaceted, and I think that that is what can be so confusing about it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:22:15]:
We have a few people we’ve worked with where they’re, like, seeing a hypermobility doctor, but, like, they don’t do anything. They just, like, do all the tests and stuff. And I’m like, okay, so what are you going to do next? And it’s like, they do a lot of low dose naltrexone. Do you see that a lot? Ldn? Do you find it helpful?
Taylor Goldberg [00:22:29]:
Do you see that a lot? I am not a medical doctor, so I cannot speak on pharmaceuticals. I have seen it help some of my clients. I’ve seen it done nothing for some of my clients. I’ve seen it harm some of my clients. So my overall experience with it is neutral, is what I would say. But I will say I have read some research on it, and it does seem seem like it, research wise, it does seem to make sense why they are prescribing it so much. But research is always just one piece of the puzzle.
Amanda Montalvo [00:23:01]:
So, yeah, I haven’t, like, seen it make a big difference. That’s why I was curious. I was like, I wonder if Taylor sees this. I mean, I’m sure. I’m like, I’m sure she’s seen it a lot. Like, whether or not it works is interesting. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit more about this trifecta. I went through it in detail with Michelle’s episode, but I do want your perspective on it, specific to hypermobility.
Amanda Montalvo [00:23:23]:
So this trifecta is that not in every case, but in many cases, we’ll see mast cell activation syndrome, which presents as, like, a lot of histamine issues. It can lead to a huge, huge range of symptoms, because it can affect every different system in the body. And it’s a lot of inflammation, typically, because it’s like an inflammatory response, and it’s dysregulated. So that’s, like, one piece of it. And then dysautonomia, which we often see as pots in our clients, and then the hypermobility piece. So how do these all fit together in your world?
Taylor Goldberg [00:24:00]:
Yeah. So big umbrella is the connective tissue. Like I said, the connective tissue lines. Literally everything in our body and our mast cells live in our connective tissue. So that’s where the mast cell piece comes in. Now, dysautonomia is a big umbrella term. And, yes, pots is the most common type, but it is only one type. And I hear this all the time.
Taylor Goldberg [00:24:23]:
Well, I don’t have pots, so I can’t have eds. That’s not true. And just because you don’t have pots actually doesn’t mean that you don’t have dysautonomia. There’s actually 30 different types of dysautonomia. Pots is just the most common, and it does change your treatment plan depending on what type of dysautonomia you have. But sometimes we can’t tell you exactly what type of dysautonomia you have, which can be frustrating. And so going back to talking about your clients seeing an EDS doctor, and they kind of just give you a label but don’t give you any solutions. That is a big, big problem, in my opinion, in the medical field in general, especially when it comes to women’s health, we need to stop just giving labels and not explaining what that label means, and not explaining the hope that you can have with these labels.
Taylor Goldberg [00:25:12]:
The number one thing I hear is, I was told I’m hypermobile, or I was told I have eds, and there’s nothing I can do about it, and I just have to live like this. And that is not true. There is so much we can do for these conditions, and I’m a big proponent. Something I do with all of my clients is creating a care team for all of the different things that you’re experiencing on your spectrum. This takes a team. One doctor is never going to be enough to help the wide range of symptoms that you’re going to be experiencing. And creating a care team for yourself that is empathetic and understanding and validating and gives you hope can literally change your entire life. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it is possible, especially in the world we live in now, where there’s so many providers online, there’s so many different ways to work with people.
Taylor Goldberg [00:25:56]:
So if you are in that bucket where you were told there’s nothing you can do, you’re just hyper mobile, please know that that is not the reality. Okay, so back to the trifecta. So, with dysautonomia, which is basically your autonomic nervous system, which is the part of your body that controls the things we don’t think about, it controls your swallowing, your heart rate, your breathing, things that you don’t think about, it is out of whack, and that can lead to a whole different range of symptoms. For pot specifically, it deals a lot with heart palpitations, racing heart rate, dizziness. Orthostatic hypotension also falls under that umbrella, and that’s a common one I see as well. That’s the one I personally have. And that one can lead to very similar symptoms. As pots minus the heart rate changes, it can lead to dizziness, it can lead to passing out, lead to feeling like you’re going to pass out.
Taylor Goldberg [00:26:48]:
And as you can kind of start painting this picture, not only do they all go together, but they all impact one another. So let’s say we’re in a dysautonomia flare and our heart is racing really, really fast, and we’re super fatigued and we can’t exercise now. Our muscles are not getting the blood flow and stimulation that they need, and they might fatigue a little bit easier. And that can make us maybe not move as much. That can lead to our pain story. It can be a piece in our pain story, and then the mast cells, maybe it affects our appetite and we aren’t getting in enough protein or we are not able to eat something that can be helpful for us. And now we’re malnourished. That will also impact the cycle.
Taylor Goldberg [00:27:36]:
So that’s why it really takes a whole care team, because they all affect each other.
Amanda Montalvo [00:27:42]:
Yeah. Improving our thyroid health can be complex, right. It’s so much more than just, just knowing, am I making enough thyroid hormone? We really need to zoom out and look at the full process and picture and understand, okay, how is the signaling from my brain going? Is my thyroid getting the signal to make more thyroid hormone? And then you have to think about, is there anything my thyroid might need that it’s not getting to produce that thyroid hormone? Maybe there’s a nutrient deficiency, maybe there’s too much inflammation or stress. Then we want to think about, can it convert it? Right. That’s the next big step. And that’s a typically impacted by stress, inflammation, and nutrient deficiencies as well. And then finally we have to realize, can it get inside the cells? And this is where minerals come in big time. So zooming out, understanding your full picture is so critical for thyroid health.
Amanda Montalvo [00:28:32]:
This is why I created my free functional thyroid series. That is a six part video series. It’s a mini course. I’m really proud of it. It gives you a ton of information, and it’s going to help you figure out what is the root cause of your thyroid issue. Where in the process is it breaking down for you. I even go through lab tests and teach you how to understand what your lab tests mean and what you might wanna optimize based on your results. So make sure you check it out.
Amanda Montalvo [00:28:57]:
You can go to the description of this podcast and get the link to join for free. And when it comes to the flare piece, cause you do flare tracking with your clients and you teach people how to do it inside the HSB hub, what is flare tracking? Why is that like such a big part of the work you do with clients? And then if you want to talk about like some ways to get started with it, I think that would be like so helpful.
Taylor Goldberg [00:29:23]:
Yeah. So flares in general basically mean your symptoms are heightened. And my goal for all of my clients is to decrease our intensity and frequency of our flares and also accept that we’re never going to be 100% flare free. And we need to learn how to manage those flares so that we have the confidence to do everything we want in life. Knowing that if I get in a flare, I know what to do, it’s not going to be debilitating, it’s going to be annoying, I’m not going to sugarcoat it, but it’s never going to debilitate me and it’s never going to stop me from what I’m doing. And the really only way to do this is to get data on yourself and know what are your triggers and what are your warning signs. So, warning signs is something your body is telling you before a symptom is about to come on. An example in this population would be like facial flushing.
Taylor Goldberg [00:30:10]:
That is probably a warning sign that we may have too much histamine in our system, or blood pooling. That might be a warning sign that we’re about to get some brain fog, we’re about to get some dysautonomia symptoms. And then triggers are something we do that we know consistently brings on certain symptoms. So maybe if you get less than a certain amount of sleep, or during your period, or during a specific part of your cycle, there is a consistent theme, then we can be reactive and proactive based off of our warning signs and triggers. And so the best way to do this, there’s an app called Guava. It’s free. It is made for the EDS population. You just set up an account and track all your symptoms and it will actually tell you what your warning signs and triggers are.
Taylor Goldberg [00:30:57]:
You do need a month’s worth of data to really figure this out. So it is a decent amount of time before you’re going to get those answers. But then we also need to know, what do we do with those answers? Because I hear a lot of the times, okay, I know that this is my trigger, but I don’t know what to do about it. Sometimes triggers are in our control, sometimes triggers are out of our control, and we need to make a plan for both. And that’s what I do with my clients.
Amanda Montalvo [00:31:19]:
Yeah. And I think that’s. Did someone with EDS make that app? Because that’s really cool.
Taylor Goldberg [00:31:24]:
Yeah, they did. Yeah. It’s two. They’re awesome. They’re two girls. They’re great. They’re great to work with. If any clinicians are listening, they also have a provider portal, so that’s something to look into as well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:31:35]:
Cool. And it’s okay. Guava app. I’ll put that. I’ll put a link for that in the show notes for people that are interested. So basically, track for a month, get all your data. It’s going to give you what your triggers likely are based on symptom tracking for a month. And then from there, the goal is to try to create a plan for, like, if a trigger, maybe it’s like, not within your control.
Amanda Montalvo [00:31:58]:
Because Michelle was talking about, like, a flare kit and I was like, I love the idea of that. Because a lot of the times when we. It doesn’t matter what the health issue is. When you have a lot of symptoms, it is really easy to spiral when they start to pop up. Right? So if you are in like, a symptom spiral, because you’re like, oh, my gosh, what caused this? That’s usually what it is. People trying to figure out what caused this. Right. Instead of going down that rabbit hole and putting your energy into that and stressing your body out more.
Amanda Montalvo [00:32:29]:
I love the idea of being like, this is happening or it’s about to happen. Your body’s trying to warn you, what can I have on hand in order to, like, attack this and, like, mitigate the issue or just, like, make myself feel better? And I was like, that is so cool. Do you have, like, an example? Maybe it’s like one of yours or something you’ve seen in a lot of clients.
Taylor Goldberg [00:32:52]:
Yeah. So I want to emphasize doing what you can do for yourself in the moment and how you can make it accessible to yourself before you worry about the why, if you worry about the why when you’re in the flare, you’re never going to get out of the flare. The why will come after you get relief. Find relief first. I know that is hard, and I know you just want to know why, why, why? But it’s not going to serve you. Set an affirmation for yourself. Write it on an index card or a sticky note. Put it on your mirror.
Taylor Goldberg [00:33:23]:
What can I do for myself in this moment. How can I make it accessible to myself? So a very common example that I experience is blood pooling. And so if I look down and my feet are red or purpley, I know, okay, I need to get more blood flow up to my brain and up to my heart. So I’m either going to take some electrolytes, I’m going to lie down with my legs up the wall for five to ten minutes, or I’m going to put my compression socks on or abdominal binder, and that hopefully will mitigate the potential of brain fog and dizziness and other dysautonomia symptoms. That’s just one example. There’s so many different. That would be more of a warning sign example. So a good trigger example.
Taylor Goldberg [00:34:04]:
And for triggers, we’re going to be more reactive usually than proactive. So let’s say I know every time I don’t get 7 hours of sleep, I get insert symptom, I wake up. I got 6 hours of sleep last night. Okay, I’m going to go to my flare toolkit and I’m going to use that more today. I’m going to use some relief strategies for the areas that usually get affected when I don’t have 7 hours of sleep. I’m going to maybe rest a little bit more. Maybe I’m going to pace a little bit better today. I’m going to look at my schedule.
Taylor Goldberg [00:34:35]:
I’m going to do some schedule management. Maybe I’m going to do some passive modalities on myself. I’m going to use a topical that enjoy, or I’m going to use a lacrosse ball for some self massage. Maybe I’m going to modify my workout a little bit to make sure that I don’t injure myself or something in that realm. So things in that realm.
Amanda Montalvo [00:34:54]:
I’m curious, too, with like, so you have these things, obviously, like, you can do preemptively. You also have the things where, like, you see the blood pooling in your feet and you’re like, all right, I have Xyz. I know that’s going to help me. Obviously that’s going to take experimentation for people and probably working with someone like yourself to be like, okay, well, this is my trigger. Like, what are some things that could possibly help? But what about, like, do you ever, is there anything that you do every day, no matter what, even if you don’t have a trigger or anything going on?
Taylor Goldberg [00:35:26]:
Yeah. So I create daily routines for all of my clients. That’s kind of one of the biggest things we do together. And this is going to be very individualized. But I can definitely give some just general, helpful things that would help anybody, whether you’re hypermobile or not, always doing something for your nervous system, whether that is belly breathing, gargling water, laughing, humming, something for your nervous system every single day. Something for blood flow every single day. Calf raises are, like, the easiest way to pump blood up. Start adding calf raises into your movement breaks.
Taylor Goldberg [00:36:01]:
That’s another one. Take movement breaks. Human beings are not supposed to stay in one position for long. We’re just not meant to do that. And if you’re hypermobile, you’re really not supposed to stay in one position for a long period of time. Ideally, if you can take a movement break every 20 minutes, that’s gonna be the most helpful for your body. So I do have a lot of my clients set alarms to remind themselves to take a movement break every 20 minutes. And it doesn’t have to be anything crazy.
Taylor Goldberg [00:36:26]:
It could be as simple as ten calf raises, and then they can get back to their work or changing their position from sitting to standing, or from. I have my left leg up. Now I’m gonna put my right leg up. One thing that is more specific to this population is adding something in for proprioception. So proprioception is, where is our body in space? And proprioception can be increased by taking away our senses. So doing something with your eyes closed. I have my clients, when they’re brushing their teeth, stand on one leg with your eyes closed. Or when you’re making coffee, close your eyes.
Taylor Goldberg [00:36:56]:
Something in that realm. Something for proprioception. Because we do usually have slower proprioception in this population. And if we can increase that, it can go a really, really long way. Yeah, that’s. And then more specific things like, let’s say, you know, you have upper cervical instability. Well, then maybe we are going to go down a line of, do we need to be using a brace sometimes? When do we use that brace? Things in that realm?
Amanda Montalvo [00:37:26]:
Yeah, and I think that too, like. Cause that’s the big thing. It’s kind of like any other. Like, anyone wants to have a routine of things they do for themselves. Like, I always have, like, non negotiables that I would do every single day just to support myself. It’s like. So you’re just kind of taking that, making it a little more specific to things like, especially the proprioception piece that obviously could be really helpful. So easy not adding any time to your day, but it’s something that you probably wouldn’t have known could be helpful for hypermobility if you didn’t learn it from someone like you that’s got this knowledge.
Amanda Montalvo [00:37:59]:
So I love those. They’re very doable. I hope that anyone listening takes advantage of that guava app. I can’t believe it’s free. Like, what an amazing gift to this world and this community. You mentioned adjusting your workout if you don’t get enough sleep, can we talk about exercise? Because I feel like this is a really confusing topic for the hypermobile population. How do you find exercise that works? Is it helpful? Is it harmful? Should you stretch? I mean, these are all questions I see all the time.
Taylor Goldberg [00:38:31]:
Yeah. So if you know anything about me, I am the biggest bias towards exercise. I think exercise is the greatest gift to the planet. Now, I also know exercise isn’t easy for everybody, especially in this population. And depending on your comorbidities, depending on where you are in the spectrum, it’s going to be harder or easier. And one very common theme in the hypermobile population is doing too much too soon or trying to compare yourself to an old version of you and then being really confused why you can’t still do the things you were able to do back then. And what can happen in this population a lot is what we call the domino effect. So let’s use dysautonomia as an example.
Taylor Goldberg [00:39:17]:
Maybe you got Covid, maybe you got an infection, maybe something traumatic happened. And now your dysautonomia is heightened. You are more fatigued, your heart is racing, you’re having scary symptoms. And then you rest. You rest and maybe you rest for a little too long because a doctor told you don’t exercise or you didn’t feel like it was safe for you to exercise. Now we can be deconditioned and that can make our symptoms worse. And then we get back to the gym and we try to start where we were two weeks ago, and it doesn’t feel like two weeks is that long, but it is, and we go too hard too soon. And so as far as, like, types of exercise, I am a big, big proponent for strength training.
Taylor Goldberg [00:40:02]:
We need strong muscles in this population. We need our muscles to have the capacity to give us stability and to give us strength. We need to have strong muscles. Now, some common themes when we are strength training is we might go past our end range, we might go too fast when we are doing it, we might lift a little too heavy too soon. And so this is really about load management and working with a provider that is going to help you stay in your ranges and learn to control your hypermobility and strengthen the areas that need to get really, really strong to be able to handle the capacity needed for your hypermobile body. Now, as far as, like, stretching and yoga and really any type of exercise, I believe every type of exercise can be modified to work for a hypermobile body. We just need to figure out what that looks like for the individual human. But some good kind of rules of thumb.
Taylor Goldberg [00:40:55]:
If you know you’re hypermobile, stretching is just not going to do that much for you, and you’re wasting your time, and you might as well do something else with that time. Um, but a good rule of thumb is don’t stay in stretch for longer than a minute and never over stretch, meaning never put weight on top of you in an end range position. So gymnasts, cheerleaders, dancers do this a lot. They’ll get in a split, and then their coach will put weights on them. Don’t do that. Please don’t do that. It is not necessary.
Amanda Montalvo [00:41:24]:
Yeah, and I’m curious, like, as you were talking about the deconditioning piece, again, I’m, like, thinking of clients that we’ve worked with because so many light bulbs, like, go off. And that’s why when I first learned about this, I was like, ah, like, I wish I knew about this sooner. For the decondition, like, say, like, someone takes off two weeks and then they come back even. What if they, like, don’t overdo it? Or they don’t think that they’re overdoing it? Like, they’re like, I’m doing less than I was. I’m trying to come back slowly. I’m even thinking people that, like, maybe they’ve had, like, a ton of chronic stress and they go through a period of, like, a few months where they don’t work out because they’re, like, trying to prioritize other things in their life, healing, whatever, and then they come back and they’re like, man, I’m taking things really slowly. I have rest days in between, and no matter what, they cannot recover from the workouts. Is that common? Like muscle fatigue that just doesn’t go away, no matter what?
Taylor Goldberg [00:42:19]:
Extremely, extremely common. Probably the most common thing that I see. And a lot of that specifically has to do with load management, meaning, how are we exercising? So we might think that we are doing less and we might be doing less, but what does less mean? How are we defining that? Are we just doing a couple less reps? Are we just dropping the weight a little bit? Are we just doing a couple less exercises. What about what we’re doing in the actual exercise? Are we slowing down? Are we focusing on our breath? Are we maybe sitting down because we haven’t been upright in two months, and now all of a sudden, we can be upright and we’re going to the gym? Our body isn’t used to that anymore. We’ve been in bed for two months. Our bodies are slower to recover when we’re hypermobile as well. We also have slower wound healing. That is due to the connective tissue issues, if you will.
Taylor Goldberg [00:43:17]:
And it will take us longer to get back to our baseline. It also takes us longer to gain strength and to gain muscle mass. And so a big piece of living in a hypermobile body is learning to be patient and still make things exciting, which is something that very passionate about, because I know how frustrating and boring it can be to just do the same thing over and over again. And I love exercise, and I think exercise should be fun for everybody. And I do believe there’s a way to make that happen for everybody as well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:43:50]:
Yeah. Because I think that’s the thing that we typically see, is they’re like, I feel like I’m doing all the right things. Like, I’m not working out as frequently. I’m taking rest days in between, really lighten the load in the overall, like, volume of their training. Like, they’re just not doing as much overall. And I’m like, man, I don’t know, because all those things sound like they should make it so that you can tolerate it. But now I’m really. Because, like, with thyroid issues, that’s really common as well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:44:18]:
And so I was always kind of like, okay, well, they have this history of thyroid stuff. Maybe it’s just, like, not in a good place. But now I’m, like, really gonna ask a lot more questions as far as, like, the hypermobility piece and possible signs and symptoms there. And then be like, this could be an area because they’re all. They’re all histamine people that I’m thinking of in my head right now. But it’s like, it’s so hard because it’s like, you don’t know. And they’ve probably never been told, like, oh, you have all these signs of hypermobility, and, like, that could be contributing to some of your symptoms. And they are the ones that are the hardest mast cell cases, for sure.
Amanda Montalvo [00:44:55]:
So I don’t. I’m sure everyone listening, maybe people know this, but now I’m like, oh, my gosh, I have to go message so many people. And remember, check it out, you know?
Taylor Goldberg [00:45:06]:
Yeah. And remember, exercise is a stress on our body. It’s a stress we need. But when we’re in a heightened stress state and our mast cells are going crazy, we need to provide safety for our body first. We need to focus on our nervous system first. Then we can start exercising. So both have to be in place. And the other thing, too, when it comes to pot specifically, and this is not true for all types of dysautonomia, but pot specifically, our heart is a big part of it, and our heart is a muscle like anything else, and it needs to be trained.
Taylor Goldberg [00:45:36]:
And deconditioning does not cause pots. I want everybody to know that you did not get pots because you were lazy. And I heard I, that all of the time, and that is not true. And there’s so much data proving that. But deconditioning can make pots worse. And so if, you know you have pots, if you can do everything in your power to not get deconditioned, that is proactively the best case scenario. But once we are at that point, we have to start doing some cardiac rehab as well. And that is a huge missing piece I see in this population a lot of the time.
Amanda Montalvo [00:46:11]:
Yeah. And I think, too, because they are afraid to exercise, you know, which is totally understandable. I would probably be too. Is there a time when you need to be really careful with exercise?
Taylor Goldberg [00:46:23]:
I mean, always. Like, I think that, I don’t know, really careful is the right word, because I don’t, I don’t want anybody to think that they’re fragile or that they’re broken or anything in that realm, but learning to listen to your body and figuring out what is your body telling you in this moment, what is your body telling you with exercise and finding a tolerable starting point, finding some level of movement that you can do when you’re in a flare can go such a long way, like calf raises or chin tucks or a couple of little pelvic tucks. Different things. Something is better than nothing. Even when we are bed bound, even my bed bound clients, I have them do some level of activity, some level of movement to get blood flow pumping every single day. We need to, humans need to move. We have to, we just have to find the way, one where it doesn’t flare us, where it’s tolerable for us, and where it’s safe for us.
Amanda Montalvo [00:47:21]:
And that’s a really good point, too. Cause, like, if someone, I imagine if someone’s, like, tracking their triggers in that guava app and then they start to look like, oh, my gosh, every time I exercise, I have a flare maybe, but it’s like, it doesn’t mean you can’t exercise. You have to look at what’s leading up to the exercise as well. So I think that’s a really important thing, too, because I know so many people that they love exercise, but they’re like, I can’t tolerate it. My body literally cannot tolerate it. And it’s. And I’m happy that you said, like, the older version of yourself. So do you find that people with hypermobility, like, they used to be able to tolerate it, and then as they get older, or is there something that specifically happens where they can’t tolerate it as much?
Taylor Goldberg [00:48:04]:
So this is what we usually see. You were an athlete as a kid. Exercise was very important to you. It was easy for you maybe, too. Then we get a little bit older, something happens. A traumatic event, pregnancy, maybe giving birth, an infection. We’re seeing a lot with COVID right now, something traumatic happens, and that is kind of this trigger to an increase in symptoms, whether that’s from mast cells, whether that’s now you have dysautonomia and you didn’t before. And now we become deconditioned, and that domino effect starts to happen.
Taylor Goldberg [00:48:43]:
And then we want to be back to that athlete self and who we used to be. And I can say this for myself. When I had my upper circle instability flare, I wanted to go back to handstands right away. I wanted to go back to all the things that I love, and I couldn’t, and it was frustrating and it sucked. But now I can because I didn’t go zero to 100. And that is the most important piece, knowing that this is temporary, this is not forever, and this is going to help future you.
Amanda Montalvo [00:49:13]:
So how? Just so, because I feel like the cervical instability is so important for people to figure out if they have, because it’s like, that’s, like, a really big deal, and that’s, like, I feel like probably one of the biggest contraindications with getting adjusted. I’m assuming, if you have hypermobility, what are some signs that they have cervical instability?
Taylor Goldberg [00:49:33]:
Yeah. So let’s define it. So, like I said, instability is when you have ligament laxity causing the bones to be able to move. When this happens in your neck. So either between your skull and your first vertebra or your first vertebra and your second vertebra, that would be labeled as upper cervical instability. Upper cervical instability is also a spectrum. There is mild medium and severe. Only 5% of upper cervical instability cases are severe.
Taylor Goldberg [00:50:03]:
Only 5% need surgery. Surgery should and is always the last resort because there’s a lot of reasons for that. But surgery should always, always, always be the last resort for upper cervical disability. The good news, we can do so much from conservative care, from physical therapist, chiropractor, occupational therapist, point of view to help with upper cervical instability. And as far as some signs and symptoms to look out for is if you have upper cervical instability, what can happen is those vertebra can move and they can touch your brain stem. There’s a lot of stuff up here that can be affected, and the symptoms could be dizziness, but it’s the type of dizziness that it’s like, not. The room is spinning, not vertigo y dizziness, more like staticky in your head or like cloudiness. Visual snow is also one for this dizziness.
Taylor Goldberg [00:51:00]:
Now you’re going to start seeing a lot of these sound like dysautonomia, and that’s the hard part. They overlap a lot. And so what we really need to look at is when are these symptoms happening? Are they happening when you’re moving your head, or are they happening when we’re going from sitting to standing? Do we have neck pain? Is the neck pain more traps, blood flow, coat hanger pain? Because that’s going to be more dysautonomia in nature. Or is it more suboccipital gnawing, joint pain that doesn’t really go away. That would be more consistent with upper cervical. For the more severe cases of upper cervical instability, we can have neurosymptoms, and we can also have cognitive issues, and that is a red flag. And if that is where you’re at, we need imaging.
Amanda Montalvo [00:51:44]:
Okay. And so when someone gets, like, the hypermobility or EDS heds diagnosis, are they automatically doing that sort of thing? Because I’m just thinking of the people that have that they’ve. But they aren’t getting. It’s not like you’re getting that diagnosis. When you go to the doctor, I’m assuming you have to, like, maybe use that guava app, pay attention to your symptoms, and then if you are seeing things, hopefully you’re working with someone that, like, knows more about this. Cause that’s like, I feel like it’s like if Michelle had known that sooner, she could have avoided so many issues, but it’s like, how do you know until there’s an issue?
Taylor Goldberg [00:52:19]:
Yeah. And to be honest, I didn’t know about upper cervical instability until I had an issue as well. And that’s a lot of people’s stories. The other hard part about upper cervical instability is the imaging required is an upright MRI, which is extremely inaccessible and extremely expensive. So it’s really hard to get diagnosed with upper cervical instability. And many doctors don’t even know it exists or unfortunately don’t believe in it, which doesn’t make any sense because there’s a lot of data on it. That’s a different tangent. But as far as, like, symptoms to look out for, if you feel like you can’t hold your head up, like your head is a bobblehead and you get dizzy when you’re moving your neck and you feel like you always have to hold your head up and you know you’re hypermobile, that is a good enough reason to go look into this a little bit deeper.
Taylor Goldberg [00:53:16]:
And I would look for specifically somebody who specializes in EDs. So the Eds society has a list of practitioners on their website. I also have that linked on my resource page. That’s the first place I would look. And if you aren’t able to find anyone on there in your area, there are some online providers that can be really, really helpful with this, specifically myself, but there are some others as well. Brianna healed and empowered on Instagram. She specializes in head and neck in this population, and she can be a really great guide for this as well.
Amanda Montalvo [00:53:53]:
Awesome. And I have your resources page linked in the show notes of this episode as well. Okay, that was. I feel like there are so many good nuggets in that episode. Everyone listen to it again. You know, there like so many little tidbits, like little movement snacks you can take throughout the day. Even if you just, like, if you have hypermobility, maybe you’ve been diagnosed. You’re like, I have no idea what to do.
Amanda Montalvo [00:54:15]:
That was where it ended, right? Specifically how it goes. Even just incorporating some of those. Obviously, Taylor has a website and you do work with clients one on one. Can you talk a little bit more about how you work with people one on one? Because it’s all virtual. And then your clinician course, like, what does that look like?
Taylor Goldberg [00:54:35]:
Yeah. So for my one on one clients, we take a deep dive into your entire pain story and your entire symptoms. What we really do is create a daily routine for yourself, get you back to exercise, figure out ways to learn. What is your body telling you? What does this mean? And we create care teams together as well as flare routines like we talked about before. It’s very individualized, very dependent on where are you on the spectrum? What does this mean for your life? What are your goals? Very goal dependent. But we take a full body approach. We go from head all the way to toes and figure out what are your needs, what are your unique needs, what areas of your body need more control? What areas of your body need more strength? How do we make that accessible? Where’s your tolerable starting point? Pretty much all the things we talked about today, working together to create that so that we can increase your quality of life. And my biggest goal for all of my clients, a lot of it is mindset.
Taylor Goldberg [00:55:33]:
Work is learning to accept and understand. This is the condition that you are dealing with. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have the most amazing life. We just might have to work a little bit harder for it. And along with that is knowing we’re going to have flares every now and then. That’s okay. That’s part of it. They don’t have to debilitate us, though.
Taylor Goldberg [00:55:52]:
They don’t have to bring on immense fear. We can have confidence in our ability to manage them. And that’s kind of my goal for all of my clients. And then for clinicians, it’s for musculoskeletal clinicians. So physical therapists, chiropractors, occupational therapists, and it basically teaches you everything you need to know with working with this population. So we take you from the diagnostic of a patient all the way through a full treatment plan, through a full rehab plan. When can you do manual therapy? What type of manual therapy can we do for this population? Taking into account the comorbidities, like mcas in our office, are we using cleaning products that might affect mast cell patients? Are we using different lotions or lubricants that might affect mast cell patients? How do we create a rehab plan that is safe for this population? All of that stuff. And it’s been really exciting to see clinicians now using that stuff with their patients.
Taylor Goldberg [00:56:45]:
So it’s been really cool.
Amanda Montalvo [00:56:46]:
How long have you had that available for clinical?
Taylor Goldberg [00:56:49]:
It’s pretty new, so about six months now.
Amanda Montalvo [00:56:51]:
Okay. That’s really. It sounds incredibly comprehensive and, like, such a great resource. I had a couple. I have a couple of Cairo friends that I was like, do you know about this? Of course. Like, you learned about something. One of them works with women. And she was like, yeah, yeah.
Amanda Montalvo [00:57:07]:
She’s like, yes, I know, a little bit. But I was like, you should look into the course because she. We were talking and she’s seen a lot of increase in this diagnosis as well. It’s like, basically since COVID what you talked about, like, that’s obviously, that can be like a trigger and stuff. Just very, very interesting stuff, how it’s all connected. But if you guys are a part of this hyper mobile population, maybe you have a loved one that is. Please check out Taylor’s instagram. So many helpful insights on there.
Amanda Montalvo [00:57:35]:
I’m going to link to her resource page, her clinician course, and then if you want to work with her, I did also put the link for there as well. And that guava app, because I’m like, that’s even before you start working with someone, it’s like, do that for yourself and start to increase your awareness around your own body and how it’s communicating with you. So thank you so much for your time and sharing your expertise. I’ve learned so much in the episode. I cannot wait to dig into this topic more, especially with our clients that are part of this population. And I just appreciate you so much.
Taylor Goldberg [00:58:06]:
Taylor, thank you for having me. This is awesome.
Amanda Montalvo [00:58:09]:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Are You Menstrual podcast. If you want to support my work, please leave a review and let me know how you like the episode. This lets me know, like, what you guys want more of, less of. I read every single one and I appreciate them more than you know. If you want to keep learning, you can get access to the bonus episode and additional resources on patreon.com hormonehealingrd. I’d love to have you in there. Thanks again, and I will see you in the next episode.
