We are back with part two with Michelle Shapiro! After our initial discussion in the last episode about how these conditions relate to one another, today we are diving into conventional treatments and functional approaches for MCAS, POTS, and hypermobility. Michelle and I discuss why jumping straight to restrictive diets might not be the best long-term solution, why stabilizing mast cells should come first, and why specialized care is crucial.
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Reflux episode with Michelle
Compression socks
The Chop Levine Protocol (exercise protocol for POTS)
The Hypermobility Chiropractor we constantly mentioned
Gupta program
Study link for long covid
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Amanda Montalvo [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Are You Menstrual podcast, where we dive deep into all things women’s health to support you on your healing journey. I’m Amanda Montalvo, functional and integrative dietitian, also known as the Hormone Healing Rd. If you enjoyed this podcast and you want to keep learning, check out the podcast Patreon, where I share a bonus episode with additional downloadable resources. Each week you can go to patreon.com, hormonehealingrdez or check out the link in the show notes. All right, we are back for part two with Michelle Shapiro. Talking about not only, like, last week we went through all, like, the specifics of, like, what is mast cell activation syndrome? What is pots? What is hypermobility? How are they all related? How do they relate to Covid, the immune system, all the things. This week we want to talk more about the actual treatment of them. So we’re going to go through, like, what is conventional treatment for these different conditions? What is the more functional treatment, or what we think is correct? And then we will talk about some alternative treatments as well that were like, hey, maybe just be careful with this based on Michelle’s amazing experience.
Amanda Montalvo [00:01:12]:
So let’s first talk about mast cell activation syndrome. Like, what is the typical conventional approach to that?
Michelle Shapiro [00:01:22]:
Yeah, so this is going to be mostly a medication approach when it comes to mcas. And there are medications that are extremely valid. A lot of them are extremely valid. I will also tell you this, even in functional care, a lot of my clients need some level of antihistamine drug during the beginning to basically stabilize symptoms. So what people are going to do is they’ll either have mast cells stabilizing drugs or anti histamine specific drugs. Doctors may also recommend other things that help your body to, like, break down histamines. They might recommend vitamin C or Dow or which we can talk about in the functional model, obviously, but they might recommend those things. But oftentimes you’re going to find with doctors who specialize in MCAs, they’re going to be very targeting the mast cells themselves, their stabilization drugs, chromolin, sodium ketotyphen, those kind of drugs, and over the counter antihistamine drugs that might work on different histamine receptors in the brain or body, depending.
Amanda Montalvo [00:02:18]:
And I think, like, it’s really important to keep in mind that it’s okay to use conventional approaches while you’re working on other things. I can’t tell you how many people we’ve worked with are like, oh, and I had to take this medication. Cause, like, I really just couldn’t handle the symptoms. I’m like, please do not apologize for taking something that’s gonna help you. Healing is not linear. It’s not straightforward. And when you’re dealing with mast cell activation syndrome and typically other conditions like pots, like hypermobility, like, you have to. You have to do what you have to do.
Amanda Montalvo [00:02:50]:
I mean, you can’t make other changes in your life if you are constantly having flares. So don’t feel bad about taking medication is like, what I want people to understand 100%.
Michelle Shapiro [00:03:00]:
And I will say that I can’t say this definitively, but I think it’s very hard to stabilize mast cells without medications. And basically what happens is your body will release x amount of mediators from one event. Those will be floating around your bloodstream for three months. These drugs, the antihistamine drugs specifically, will block the symptoms. They’re not blocking the actual histamines from being released. However, if you’re blocking the symptoms and you are taking antihistamine drugs, it is proposed that then your body doesn’t start the cyclical response of releasing more histamines. I have to tell you one of the, in my opinion, dumbest features of the human body, which is that the more histamines that are present, the more the body releases histamines. So if we eat a high histamine food, it’s not only that the histamine, the high histamine food will have a problem.
Michelle Shapiro [00:03:53]:
There will then be, will cause a problem in symptoms. Then the body goes, ooh, histamines, let me release more. So anything you do to bring down histamines or other mediators or targeting the mast cells as a whole can potentially stop that cycle. So you really have to crack in, and you might have to be a little bit forceful. So that is going to be. From a conventional standpoint, the first step is just make this process stop in whatever way possible. It’s not only like, there’s no shame in these medications, I take it a step further. For most people, at some point, they’ll probably need them.
Michelle Shapiro [00:04:25]:
And that’s just the reality.
Amanda Montalvo [00:04:27]:
I think. Just like in the wellness space, it’s like the medication is so demonized, and it’s like, listen, sometimes it’s necessary. And, I mean, a lot of the times it is. It’s not like a bad thing. I think true magic happens when we’re using conventional and functional approaches. Like, you’re just. It’s like common sense, but a lot of people are pretty extreme. So I would say we cannot be extreme in this scenario.
Amanda Montalvo [00:04:53]:
So that’s like the more conventional approach, some sort of medication, whether it’s like prescription or over the counter. What is like the functional approach to dealing with this?
Michelle Shapiro [00:05:03]:
We’re gonna break this into three things, Amanda, because there’s a functional approach, and then there’s the approach that I like. So the functional approach is actually not the approach that I like generally. My qualm with what the functional approach is, is we have to find the root cause of the mcas. Why is your body having this response? Now, remember, mcas can happen from an immune situation, a virus taking to an antibiotics, gut damage, it can happen from environmental triggers. So many things can fill that bucket up more than we could even name on this podcast. How many things can fill that bucket up? That could be a whole episode on just the triggers for mcas, essentially. So if, basically we say that a parasite is the reason we have mcas, and it’s wreaking havoc, causing a constant activation of the immune system, depleting us of nutrients, what a lot of functional medicine doctors will do is say the root cause of your histamines is parasites. We have to kill these parasites.
Michelle Shapiro [00:05:59]:
And then that causes huge mass cell activation because your body’s like, oh, my God, I don’t have the nutrients for this. I can’t get rid of this thing. You’ve talked about detox and drainage so beautifully on this podcast, Amanda, so people will know by now that detox is this process of repackaging toxins, repackaging hormones, and then sending them out of the body in new forms, essentially, right? So if we don’t have the nutrients and we don’t have the detox capacity, what happens is we start recirculating those toxins, and guess who’s going to get irritated by that? Our mast cells. Because they see, oh, my God, there’s toxins that mounts a new response. So any effort in functional medicine to treat the root cause is not going to be effective if you don’t stabilize those histamines. So you have to, have to, have to stabilize histamines and mast cell, other mast cell mediators, cytokines, heparin elastases before, and there’s thousands of mediators, by the way, before going into the root cause treatment. So that’s my big qualm about functional medicine, is you have to support the body’s baseline stability and foundations first before you start doing those things. So that’s really is the functional model is, all right, do we go on a low histamine diet, maybe, and not only does our body release and create histamines.
Michelle Shapiro [00:07:15]:
It also can. We can get them, ingest them from foods. So there’s some foods that make our body release histamines, and there’s some foods that just are high in histamines basically by themselves. It’s from the amino acid histidine being converted. So I think that when approaching a lot of functional medicine, doctors will immediately, with people with mcats, put them on a low histamine diet. And I will tell you, there are times and places where that diet is necessary from an elimination standpoint. But the foods that are high in histamines, they’re so healthy, right? It’s like fermented foods, citrus fruits, bone broth. Like, these are some of the healthiest foods ever.
Michelle Shapiro [00:07:52]:
We don’t want to eliminate these foods. Tomatoes, spinach. Like, you couldn’t get healthier foods. So if we eliminate all those foods in the long term, we’re doing ourselves a huge disservice. So I think that’s another issue I see with functional medicine doctors. They immediately throw people on a low histamine diet, and that’s helpful in the short term and harmful in a very long term, basically.
Amanda Montalvo [00:08:14]:
And so the approach that we are saying is what we find the most helpful is, again, like, stabilizing the mast cells in the first place, which I feel like. It’s like the foundations, right? Like, yes. Nervous system support. Figuring out what helps your body feel safe. And people might not know what that means. It’s like, what makes you feel good? You know? Like, what makes you just feel really good and happy? Like, do the. Try to incorporate those things more, because sometimes people feel, like, guilty doing that, or they’re just like, I don’t really know what makes me feel safe, but it’s like, it doesn’t have to be that serious. What makes you happy? What makes you feel good? Even just, like, little things that make you feel like comfort.
Amanda Montalvo [00:08:55]:
It’s like trying to give your body those. Especially when you feel like you’re in a flare. Like, I always think about, like, you always take baths. You’re just like, I’m in the tub. I couldn’t deal with life. I’m in the tub.
Michelle Shapiro [00:09:06]:
I know. I literally. I’m, like, calling you from the bathtub. However, by the way, because of this, there was a time where I couldn’t take baths. And we’ll talk about that in the pot section. But, yeah, it was.
Amanda Montalvo [00:09:15]:
Which is tragic, because that’s, like, a big one, right? So it’s like, it doesn’t have to be anything, like, crazy, but, like, what makes you feel comfort? That is also not going to cause symptoms like little things like that. I think it’s so important. It’s like, are you eating enough? What is going to set off this stress alarm in your body and create that cortisol, that stress response? Because, remember, histamines are a stress response, so what’s going to create that? Like, make sure you’re eating enough? Like, all the basic things that I’m always talking about, light exposure. Circadian rhythm is huge for histamine issues because histamines are released based on a circadian pattern. Gut health cannot be fixed if we don’t have a healthy circadian rhythm. Detox is not going to occur properly if we don’t have a healthy biological clock supported by our circadian rhythm. So, like, I did a whole episode on that with Carrie Bennett. So, like, that’s a foundational thing we always focus on.
Amanda Montalvo [00:10:07]:
And I sometimes that’s the hardest one for these clients because their schedules and lives have gotten so disrupted from their symptoms. So it’s like, those things can sound simple and, like, maybe you’re like, well, I’ve tried the circadian stuff. It didn’t work. It’s not a thing that you try and stop. Okay. Circadian’s, like, for life, we need to have healthy light exposure forever. And it’s a part of those stepping stones. So it’s like, there’s no one perfect diet.
Amanda Montalvo [00:10:31]:
Low histamine might help. If you feel better doing it, do it.
Michelle Shapiro [00:10:35]:
My health, too. It just. Yeah, it depends.
Amanda Montalvo [00:10:37]:
Yeah, it’s just. But it’s like, it doesn’t have to be that, like, complex. And before you try a low histamine, if you’re not eating enough, I cannot tell you how many clients we’ve had. They’re on a low histamine diet. But, like, I kind of can’t really tell if it’s working. I feel better some days. Some days I don’t, and then we look and we’re like, you are grossly under eating food. Like, you have to eat more food.
Amanda Montalvo [00:10:57]:
So bouncing your blood sugar. Blood sugar swings can be like a trigger. So little things like that. Don’t discount those foundations, because that’s how you set yourself up to eventually when your body starts to feel safe, because it’s not constantly having these stress responses. And then that’s how you set yourself up to actually be able to start to address these things and get a little deeper.
Michelle Shapiro [00:11:20]:
100% agree. And I think if you’re stressing yourself out, about the food. We’re not saying it to be, like, philosophical, like, quite literally, if you’re more stressed about the food than the actual food impacting you, that stress itself is going to be very harmful. I will tell you this. When it comes to the low histamine diet, people are kind of hang their hats thinking, this is going to fix mcas. But then you walk into a room with bleach in it, and your histamines are all over the place, and your other mast cell mediators are all over the place. So you can’t really know if it’s the diet that’s helping. But, man, do you know when you have tomato sauce and then you’re sick for 24 hours after, you’re like, oh, my God, do I have food poisoning? I always say it’s so funny.
Michelle Shapiro [00:12:03]:
All my clients, after they fly the day, 24 hours after they fly, they’re like, michelle, do I have food poisoning right now? And I’m like, no, you just were on an airplane. Because there’s like, a little bit of a delayed response post flight. But airplanes have every mass cell trigger you could ever imagine. There’s vibration, there’s weird smells, there’s people near you, sensory things, atmospheric changes, like, everything. It’s like a.
Amanda Montalvo [00:12:23]:
Of flying that doesn’t.
Michelle Shapiro [00:12:25]:
Anxiety. Exactly. Like it’s. Which, like, shouldn’t we be. We’re like flying in a tube in the air. It’s insane. I mean, of course. Yeah, exactly.
Michelle Shapiro [00:12:32]:
Even though I’m weirdly not, but my body still, there’s so many things going on. So I think, don’t. If you do a very short term low histamine diet and you’re like, I’m not sure if it’s helping or not. It could not be. But if you’re full of symptoms, I’m sure you’re like myself or Amanda, when you’re sick, you’ll try anything. Try it only for a short term. You aren’t really. I have be honest.
Michelle Shapiro [00:12:54]:
You aren’t really going to know if it’s working or not, though, because there’s so many other things. Also, these flares, when it comes to mcas, when it comes to pots, they’re going to come in in like a week. Sometimes they’ll come for four days, and then you have to just treat the flare instead of seeking and thinking, oh, was it this thing that got me? Was it this thing that got me? Just spring into action and say, how can I help myself right now? And you’re going to make for yourself when it comes to mcas. When it comes to pots, when it comes to hypermobility, a flare pack. So it’s like, yeah, I run to those epsom salt baths now because I can tolerate them again. Woohoo. I know what to do. I have like, a heated pack that has lavender in it.
Michelle Shapiro [00:13:32]:
I’m putting it right on. If I have a coat hanger pain, it’s going right on my shoulders. I’m using arnica cream. If I have, you know, muscles that are in pain instead of prompting into, oh, my God, what happened? What did I do? What I do? Why did I eat that? What happened? That’s where you’re going to go, how can I help you body? And this is what you need to develop with these conditions, is your own system for helping yourself. Where is the symptoms coming from? Is it a pots like symptom? Is it MCAT symptom? Where is this coming from? And then you can help and support yourself based on what works for you because it’s going to be different for every person.
Amanda Montalvo [00:14:02]:
So let’s talk about some of the things that remove histamines from the body. Like what the difference from that and, like, blocking histamines overall. Like, what are some of these things that you may possibly utilize in practice with clients?
Michelle Shapiro [00:14:15]:
Yeah. So when it comes to, like, helping the body to break down histamines to get them out, because then also, like, drainage is really important. So just any good drainage practice. I know you’ve had lymphatic people on the podcast. That’s where you’re looking at that. But when it comes to, like, the detoxification of histamines, vitamin C and dow are two topics. Vitamin C is very high in histamine, so you have to go very, very slow when you’re starting it. B vitamins are going to be essential in helping to bring histamines out of the body.
Michelle Shapiro [00:14:44]:
Anything that supports liver detox, which is the primary site of histamine detoxification, is going to help. And then specifically dow, this enzyme, diamine oxidase, which you can take with food, will help to break down histamine as it enters digestion. And really in liver detox, it’s very important in both stage one and stage two liver detoxification for histamines. That’s another thing we can do and then properly hydrating, doing things like that. The problem is there’s things you do to prevent it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:15:15]:
Right.
Michelle Shapiro [00:15:15]:
Like nettle leaf tea, I find to be really helpful for people. Ginger. For some of the inflammation that comes from mast cells, ginger teas feel really, really supportive. And we have, like, so many different strategies in the highly sensitive body hub for this because there’s going to be strategies that are going to work on a nervous system level. Once those mediators are gone, there’s going to be strategies that work to help reduce histamines from being released in the first place, like nettle Leaf tea. It’ll help with that and will help with the breakdown of it. And then there’s actual nutrients, minerals that will help to usher the histamines out of the body in the right way.
Amanda Montalvo [00:15:49]:
Magnesium is really cool. Magnesium, it can help stabilize mast cells. I like reishi. Do you ever use reishi with people?
Michelle Shapiro [00:15:57]:
No, but tell me how you’ve felt about it. Because I have had clients who’ve come to me already using reishi. But I don’t know if it’s like, sometimes, like, too fungal for people that it’s like creating a little bit more of a response. So I’m curious to hear your experience.
Amanda Montalvo [00:16:12]:
Yeah, I like to use it in pregnancy. Cause it’s safe. Like, there’s a lot of things you can’t utilize in pregnancy for mast cell stuff, so. And just like any supplement in general, but it’s safe for pregnancy. You know, traditional chinese medicine uses it a lot. Cause it’s like, they call them reishi babies. If you have it throughout pregnancy, then you’ll have like, calm, chill baby and so cute. I mean, I don’t know.
Amanda Montalvo [00:16:37]:
Eliana was calm when she. I took it my whole first pregnancy. Cause I was a histamine and I was like, maybe this will. It’s great for your immune system supported, but it can stabilize mast cells. That’s what it’s shown in the research. But I also think it’s just nicer people’s nervous system. So I think that it’s kind of like a nice double win. Yeah, it’s definitely not enough on its own, but it’s one that I have had.
Amanda Montalvo [00:16:59]:
It’s mostly, I’ll use it with pregnant women in the.
Michelle Shapiro [00:17:03]:
In the highly sensitive body hub. One thing that we do is we kind of separate supplements and herbal approaches into like a strategy and a system. So I wouldn’t first do like, things that push detox. Cause then you’re gonna have that problem with histamines. I would first find any supplement, food, lifestyle habit that supports the nervous system. That’s step one. So that could be something like a neurocom, you know, gaba l theanine, things like that that are really calming and cooling. Then you focus on things to help you break down histamines.
Michelle Shapiro [00:17:35]:
Then you can focus on the gut lining, then you can focus on the liver and pushing detox. Then you can focus on rebuilding those nutrient stores minerals, which is like, hello, we’re in mineral and we’re on Miss Amanda Montalvo’s podcast, misses. Those are going to come through and basically every single stage, those are going to be important for nervous system, those are going to be important for our immune system, reducing histamines, everything, because we know our liver is desperate for nutrients and minerals during that liver detox anyway. So minerals are like broad spectrum. You can’t lose when it comes to supplementing, obviously in the right way, which is the way that you teach people. You can’t just, you know, throw a bunch of minerals at yourself. Obviously, you got to do it. Yeah.
Amanda Montalvo [00:18:15]:
And it’s like you will likely have very depleted minerals if you are struggling with any of these conditions because your body has used up the resources to respond to the stress that it’s undergoing. So I love that. And I think that’s an important way to think about it of like, okay, how are we layering this in? So we’re going to do like some nervous system support, then. Then we can move on to the other areas. So it’s the same thing with like the lifestyle changes that you’re making in your day to day. It’ll all like match up. And this is why a lot of the, like, parasite cleanses and stuff. Like, I can’t tell you how many people do those.
Amanda Montalvo [00:18:49]:
And they’re like, do you recommend doing parasite cleanses like a couple times a year for everyone? I’m like, no. Oh, God, no. So many people do. So many people do, Michelle. It’s terrifying.
Michelle Shapiro [00:18:59]:
They’re like, doing a parasite cleanse from that one company. Good morning. That one company.
Amanda Montalvo [00:19:06]:
I’m like, we honestly, just in general, I feel like a lot of my clients are like, well, I saw this on TikTok and they’ll like, show me like, crazy parasite stuff. And I’m like, like, you have to keep everything in context to yourself, especially if you’re in a highly sensitive body, because this is, I promise you, it’s not meant for you. And it’s like, you have to think about, like, how’s my immune system functioning? Is my immune system ready? How are my detox pathways? Are those ready? Like, how, you know, do I have, is my digestion, like, even good in the first place? Probably not going to be too concerned with a parasite cleanse if those things aren’t in a good place first. So I’m sure people will say, like, oh, like someone said, like, this healed, like, their mast cell activation syndrome. Just remember, like, you might be more sensitive to them. And did they really have it? Who knows? But I just see a lot of crazy things that my clients show me. I’m like, this is probably not real. And it’s definitely like, you can’t even take vitamin C.
Amanda Montalvo [00:20:02]:
So, no, we’re not gonna do, like, this whole.
Michelle Shapiro [00:20:04]:
Any of these.
Amanda Montalvo [00:20:05]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michelle Shapiro [00:20:06]:
This is if you’re in a highly sensitive body. And the way I would describe this, like, term that we’re using, this highly sensitive body, because this is not, like, a real term. This is how I just describe and cluster things in my head. It is not, you know, it’s real for us, but it’s not like, HSP, which is a real term by Elain Aaron. That’s a real thing.
Amanda Montalvo [00:20:25]:
Yeah.
Michelle Shapiro [00:20:26]:
But the way I describe the person who lives in a highly sensitive body is that they are interacting and attuned to their environment. And it could be from, like, a spiritual sense, even a physical sense, in a way that is stronger or different than how other people are interacting. So I can promise you, if you’re in a highly sensitive body, there’s almost no information on Instagram that’s catered to you. And I know that was the case for me because the more I did online, the less I was feeling good. You really have to go to practitioners like you, Amanda, who are very aware of the highly sensitive body, are very specific in catering your content to make sure you would never say, oh, everyone do this for your thyroid. Everyone do this. Because now a lot of people are in those highly sensitive bodies. I also have a quiz to determine if you are potentially in a highly sensitive body, and I’ll give you a link.
Amanda Montalvo [00:21:13]:
Okay. Yeah, that’s a good one.
Michelle Shapiro [00:21:16]:
Yeah.
Amanda Montalvo [00:21:16]:
Okay, so we’ve gone through mcas. Let’s talk about pots. What is the conventional treatment for it? Then we’ll get into the functional, and then, like, what is the most ideal?
Michelle Shapiro [00:21:27]:
I don’t know if we want to leave this in, but I’m having so much fun. This is just so enjoyable to talk about anyway.
Amanda Montalvo [00:21:31]:
It is really fun. I can’t wait to share this with a lot of my clients that are struggling in these areas because it’s like they don’t get a lot of content for them.
Michelle Shapiro [00:21:41]:
No, I know. I’m always in it for the people who would be considered the freaks, the anomalies. I’m the freak in the anomaly. So I love talking to you guys who’s listening? Those are my people. It’s always been our people, Amanda. Like, that’s just, that’s who we are. You know, I’ve given a joke before that I have friends who can just go to the beach and be in the sun for, like, 10 hours and then just drink beers and stuff. And I’m like, I don’t understand anything that’s going on in your body, but I understand the person who needs to, like, slather themselves with zinc oxide because they can’t even use the regular sunscreen and, like, be outside for 35 minutes and hydrate for electrolyte packets.
Michelle Shapiro [00:22:18]:
I’m like, there’s my girl. That’s the person I understand, you know? So the conventional treatment for pots is really focused around stabilizing the symptoms of pots in ways of the heart rate, in ways of the dizziness, in ways of anything that’s going to create that vasoconstriction properly. So you’re going to go to a doctor, they’re going to tell you have 10 grams of salt sodium per day. They’re going to tell you where those compression socks maybe even wear an abdominal binder. And then they’re also going to. Potentially, doctors may give prescriptions for things that stabilize the heart rate, like propanolol, metaprolol, like beta blocker drugs, essentially, to stabilize the heart rate. These also, much like with the MCAS medications, are very oftentimes necessary for people. In the beginning.
Michelle Shapiro [00:23:00]:
You also might, which I like to see with the Potts doctor. They may recommend something called the Levene protocol, which is a specific exercise protocol that it takes into account that people feel worse when they make positional changes. And it’s really about reconditioning so that you can recondition those blood vessels also, which is so, so important in pots. Yeah, it’s called the chop Levine protocol. C H o P L E v I n E. So they might recommend that, which I would think is really awesome if they did. And what you’ll notice about all of these interventions is they’re really treating the symptoms. And I have to tell you, the pots symptoms are so severe and so uncomfortable.
Michelle Shapiro [00:23:43]:
Mcas two. There’s something particularly cruel about pots, where it’s someone who’s just, like, literally trying to sleep. There’s one form of pots called hyper adrenergic pots, which is basically like, you have adrenaline dumping, so you just are trying to sleep and your eyes are wide open from the histamines and the pot symptoms, and you’re so dizzy that when you actually stand up, your heart rate goes crazy and you literally can’t see straight. And then you’re in a lot of body pain. Like, it’s. This is like, no joke from a symptom perspective for me. Again, in the previous episode, I asked people to, like, be hopeful and be ridiculously, recklessly hopeful. Pots will get you down for sure.
Michelle Shapiro [00:24:23]:
Like, pots is so, so hard. Like, it is. The experience of it is. It feels very life threatening. I don’t know what else to call it. It feels like you’re going to die. I don’t know. It’s.
Amanda Montalvo [00:24:31]:
That’s.
Michelle Shapiro [00:24:32]:
That’s how. That’s how I experience it. Everyone’s is different.
Amanda Montalvo [00:24:36]:
If you’re listening to this episode and wondering if you may have a mineral imbalance, you can head to the description of this podcast or my website, hormonehealingrd.com, and take my mineral imbalance quiz. It will give you a rating of low, moderate, or high risk based on your answers to questions mostly related to symptoms that you may be having. And from there, you can take my free mineral training. That is really where I recommend everyone start with supporting their minerals. It’s going to walk you through three ways. You can start doing this at home today.
Michelle Shapiro [00:25:09]:
But you are going to have to do things. And then I guess from the functional or our treatment is you really have to do things that stabilize symptoms first anyway, because you have to be able to get out of bed. There’s many people with hypermobility and pots who are immobile. And if they can’t get out of bed, then I want you to know that I’m speaking to you in a totally different context. But for people who are still mobile and able to, it’s really about making those routines, looking at the sun at a certain time, not leaving bed without having that fluid. Because overnight you’re getting more dehydrated, you haven’t moved. So people really have horrible pot symptoms in the morning. And if they have that hyper adrenergic pots, do you get these episodes of something called adrenaline dumping?
Amanda Montalvo [00:25:55]:
And it’s like, that’s where the terrible.
Michelle Shapiro [00:25:59]:
It’s my least favorite thing that I’ve ever experienced. I’m very grateful it happened because then I wouldn’t be able to talk to people about it because I could never have understood how it was until you experience it. Because you have so much adrenaline, your body, that you do think that something absolutely horrible is going on. At the same time, you’re shaking, you’re sweating, you’re running to the bathroom, but you can’t run to the bathroom because you’re so dizzy. I mean, it is, we are talking about, like, real symptoms, like, real people with real experiences. And I think for that, again, you have to do anything to treat the nervous system because pots is a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system. That’s the class of conditions that this is under. It’s a nervous system disorder.
Michelle Shapiro [00:26:39]:
And then you also have to stabilize your heart rate in whatever way you can. So it might be, don’t even get out of bed without putting your legs up on the wall. Getting some juicy blood flow to your heart. Making sure you put your compression socks on before you leave bed. You have to probably use the conventional treatments, especially in the beginning, and then you can focus on the reconditioning, rehydration, remineralization question on compression socks, because I.
Amanda Montalvo [00:27:01]:
Know people are going to ask, do you have a brand that you like?
Michelle Shapiro [00:27:04]:
So the compression sock brand that I think is cute and I like the level of compression is vim and vigor. Vim and vi GMDH.
Amanda Montalvo [00:27:12]:
Okay, I’ll link them.
Michelle Shapiro [00:27:13]:
Here’s the fun part of these conditions, Amanda, is that some people will have, and I’m going to actually speak on something. There’s a fourth layer to these conditions. So there’s hypermobility. Mcats and pots. There’s another one that kind of comes in with this genetic theory called the RCCX gene theory, which is neurodivergence. So ADHD and ASD spectrum disorders. Right. And oftentimes, people who may have pots may also be neurodivergent and experience the symptoms of that.
Michelle Shapiro [00:27:43]:
So the compression socks can actually be, like, a sensory issue. I’m laughing because, like, why does this have to be so complicated? I know it could be a sensory. I’m not laughing because of the experience. Like, trust me, there’s nothing funny about the experience. But also, if you have histamine issues, you can get overheated. So it’s really important to choose, like, a more easy, breezy compression sock to start with, and then I wouldn’t wear them overnight. I’m not giving any real recommendations on that because everyone has to find what works for them. But, um, usually it’s when you first wake up in the morning is when people need to kind of, like, get in their pots game for the day, because that’s where you’ll have to really hydrate really well.
Michelle Shapiro [00:28:17]:
Get your compression socks on, maybe do a couple exercises in bed, maybe do some deep breathing. Something like that is going to be really important.
Amanda Montalvo [00:28:24]:
And we breezed right over the 10 grams of sodium. But, um, it’s a lot of sodium, people. And we’re not saying, yes, we said it correctly, 10 grams. So that is like four times the RDA. Right. Of that, 2300 milligrams. I know that can sound like. How is that possible? It is possible.
Amanda Montalvo [00:28:45]:
The research shows there’s not an amazing amount of research around it, but it basically shows that with that much sodium, it was able to reduce the majority of the pot symptoms. And a lot of it is that, like, constriction that’s happening. So it’s important. It increases that blood volume. So it’s really important. An important piece of it that I think people are a little afraid of, because salt is always demonized, but we cannot be afraid of sodium. You need more sodium when you have pots. It will help the symptoms, and I don’t say that a lot, but it will.
Amanda Montalvo [00:29:25]:
I don’t recommend jumping right to 10 grams. I recommend doing it slower because otherwise you’ll probably have some fluid retention, which not going to make you feel great. And I find that a lot of people that have mast cell activation syndrome are already struggling with fluid retention. So they’re like, please don’t make that worse. So you can do it slowly. You can start by putting. Having a little again. Like, I like the mornings for people because you’re kind of setting yourself up for success for the day is like, put a pinch of seesaw.
Amanda Montalvo [00:29:55]:
I like to have people do it right under their tongue. Drink some water with it, like, 1216 ounces. Whatever works for you. Again, like, you’re rehydrating. If you can do this first thing in the morning, that’s incredibly helpful. It’s also great for your adrenals. So, like, most people notice, like, wow, I feel really good after I do this. That’s a great way to start.
Amanda Montalvo [00:30:13]:
You’ll probably find that if you just add some salt to your water throughout the day, that can be helpful. I. A lot of our clients with pots like to do the pinch of salt throughout the day. You can also use it in the moment for symptoms if you’re having a flare. So don’t be afraid of salt. I don’t think we need to start counting exactly how much we’re taking in every single day, but more. Yeah, just slowly start increasing it. You can.
Amanda Montalvo [00:30:37]:
What will help is if you also increase your potassium rich food sources. So focusing. I mean, so many foods have potassium, so from, like, beef and salmon have a ton of potassium for and, like, dairy. For people that are kind of more focused on the protein rich foods. We do also get a lot of potassium from carbs. So I’m always like, try to get most of your carbs from whole foods, and you’ll probably increase your potassium significantly. Potatoes, squash, I mean, pretty much all fruit. Again, like, if we’re on that low histamine diet, that can make it very challenging to get a lot of potassium in.
Amanda Montalvo [00:31:12]:
And then you up your sodium, and then you wonder why you have fluid retention, so be mindful of it. Aloe vera juice. I get people, like, hit or miss coconut water. I like to have people do adrenal cocktails with coconut water and just salt. That’s plenty. It’s sodium potassium. I get a lot of people that can’t tolerate that. Cause they’re super sensitive, and so I’ll have them do aloe vera juice, the interleaved version.
Amanda Montalvo [00:31:37]:
That’s a ton of potassium. It’s also great for your gut, which most these people need. So that could be, like, if you’re having a hard time increasing potassium rich foods because you’re struggling with, like, the histamine piece, then you could definitely just focus on, like, meat, dairy, aloe vera juice, if you can tell your coconut water, cool. Um, but increasing them at the same time, again, doesn’t have to be a perfect ratio. That will help avoid fluid retention. If you start to retain fluid, you could just not continue to increase that sodium, go back down, up your potassium rich foods, and it should resolve it. But we do, in fact, need around 10 grams of sodium. Some doctors, even in studies, even show 15 grams has been helpful for people.
Amanda Montalvo [00:32:24]:
I think it’s best to experiment and find what’s best for you. But that is another really important part of that. Like, conventional. I would even say that’s kind of functional, because not all doctors will recommend that, unfortunately.
Michelle Shapiro [00:32:36]:
And also, like you said, everyone’s gonna have a different tolerance for it, too. And there’s actually some people who have pots that actually have, like, intracranial hypertension. Hypertension. This is the weird thing about it. So you have to be careful, and you have to go with your body. And like you’re saying, Amanda, go slow. Go with your body. Like any other thing you’re going to hear on a podcast, listen to your body first and everything like that.
Michelle Shapiro [00:33:00]:
I’ll also say the weird thing is that when people increase sodium, they would expect their heart rate to increase because you’re getting more vasoconstriction, when in reality, people’s heart rates start to stabilize. Because, remember, the high heart rate comes from, first, a low blood pressure, low heart rate, and then your body going, holy crap, I need blood. So if your body has the kind of vasoconstriction you have, good juicy blood flow from the fluids that you have and the sodium acting as a vasoconstrictor or inducing vasoconstriction, your heart rate actually becomes more stabilized, which is really cool.
Amanda Montalvo [00:33:36]:
And that’s, and that’s really like, the benefit in all the studies is that it’s like they’ve gone from like this, like whether it’s like erratic, high heart rate. Most of it is, like, inconsistent because they’re having, they’re monitoring people having flares. So it’s extremely helpful. And I think that’s an important piece of the puzzle. And those are like two things that people could literally go and do today. Get those compression socks if you want to experiment with them. Increase your salt intake. What are some of the more functional perspectives on pots?
Michelle Shapiro [00:34:07]:
Yeah, I think that if there’s something, again, it’s all about maybe two pieces of this, which is that how do we kind of build that connective tissue so that we have that strong blood vessel? How do we, like, work on the epithelial cells, and then how are we focusing on treating the nervous system? I would say that’s like the approach for potsdenn, because you want the blood vessels to be functioning properly, you want the heart to be functioning properly, but those are only happening as a result of really good blood vessels and only happening as a result of really good nervous system approach. So honestly, it’s like more simple than even that. But you stabilize the symptoms in pots and ways of stabilizing blood flow, stabilizing muscle tension, and then you’re focused on the whole way through. Nervous system, nervous system, nervous system. And then really importantly, you have to recondition. So this is just so essential. This will come up when we talk about hypermobility too. But when it comes to pots, you absolutely cannot, you cannot not have muscle.
Michelle Shapiro [00:35:08]:
You have to have muscle and you have to condition that muscle. It just, it is so important for blood flow. And also our muscle is an endocrine organ. So we start sending out those mediators, cytokines, myokines to the rest of the body too, and there’s immune system involvement in it. So it’s just really, really important. That’s what I’m looking at, honestly, functionally. And then I might be doing some nutrients I might be focused on, again in hypermobility too. How are we building collagen? How are we building connective tissue? I might be focused on those things.
Michelle Shapiro [00:35:37]:
And then in pots, I’m still focused on mcas. I’m still making sure that we’re not having that huge histamine release, but that’s, like, the more robust picture of what we would be looking at for pots.
Amanda Montalvo [00:35:48]:
I just had, like, a weird epiphany about, please, this is probably more of a conversation just with you, Michelle. But everyone else can listen in too, because I’ve been with this community for a while, but I just had this thought of, like, okay, if we’re building up connective tissue, vitamin C is obviously important. Copper is really important for connectivity. But when it comes to histamine issues and mast cell activation syndrome, copper can send people into a little tailspin because of how it affects our iron status. So I’m just like, man, that’s got to be true.
Michelle Shapiro [00:36:23]:
And iron too. Iron.
Amanda Montalvo [00:36:25]:
Iron high. Iron and low. I go through this in the histamine or the, I call it the histamine hub, the highly sensitive body hub. I go through iron in those lessons because, like, having too much iron is a problem. It’ll cause more histamines. Having too little iron is a problem. Um, and with COVID too, like, long Covid, like lactoferrin, has had a lot of success with improving symptoms for people, and that helps us increase iron absorption in our intestinal cells. So very interesting stuff.
Amanda Montalvo [00:36:56]:
But I just had, I was like, oh, my gosh. Well, I would, if I was working on collagen for someone, I would definitely look at copper. But, like, and like, so many people can’t tolerate beef liver that, uh, like, master activation syndrome issues.
Michelle Shapiro [00:37:09]:
Have you found that? Have you found people get flared? I think if you go slow.
Amanda Montalvo [00:37:13]:
If you go slow, it’s fine. But unfortunately, people, like, will look at stuff online and they’re like, oh, I take, like, a, like, they’ll eat beef liver. Like, a huge portion of it. Or sometimes, like, they don’t do well with the raw liver. They do better with cooked. And so it’s, you know, they can, it’s easy to overdo it or take. If they take, like, the six capsules of beef liver supplements every single day. Yeah.
Amanda Montalvo [00:37:37]:
Like, it’s. It ends up being too much. And I’m like, yes, you need those nutrients. It’s just like, probably in a smaller amount. There’s a lot of copper and beef liver, which could be really helpful for someone working on their collagen formation. But just a weird aside that I was like, oh, my gosh, that is must be kind of tricky for people that have histamine.
Michelle Shapiro [00:37:55]:
It sure is. And then there’s the whole. Now, zinc, by the way, is something that, oh, God, you’re the perfect person to talk to about this. Yeah. Zinc is something that they, a lot of conventional medicine doctors even will recommend for hypermobility. So let me ask you about that. We have a potential copper deficiency in these people and they’re slamming themselves with zinc. What’s your concern there?
Amanda Montalvo [00:38:18]:
The nightmare that’s like the soul, and mostly too, because how that zinc is going to impact iron, like, I cannot tell you how many people come to us with low iron that are supplementing with zinc for years. And I’m like, you have to stop taking zinc. Like, we’ve got to just focus on food sources or at least like, lower the dose. I talked about this in the hub videos, too, of like, you can take a lower dose zinc supplement and then get more zinc from food. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, but I. A lot of people take zinc. They don’t know their copper status. If you had, if I had hypermobility, I personally would not take zinc because it wouldn’t make sense.
Michelle Shapiro [00:38:55]:
That’s what I’ve told colleagues before and I’ve told people I don’t really recommend zinc supplementation without your consent. Anyway, Amanda, to be honest with you.
Amanda Montalvo [00:39:03]:
Every iron client, every iron client just sends me their labs and I, like, love it. I’m like, why is this so interesting? And post Covid is even more interesting because of how iron is reacting. How the body’s reacting. It goes up initially and then it sequesters it. It goes down, but it’s like, well, do you actually have enough iron, though? Should we be taking iron supplements? Are you going to make your body more inflamed? It’s very nuanced, but yeah, just had that weird thought about copper and collagen, so we can keep.
Michelle Shapiro [00:39:34]:
But that’s really important because that would have come up in the hypermobility piece where I do think people handle beef liver supplements when going very slow. Better, because it’s whole food sources. At least. I’ve noticed that it’s even vert is.
Amanda Montalvo [00:39:49]:
Like a synthetic B vitamin or something. Oh, yeah.
Michelle Shapiro [00:39:51]:
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly. And I do notice that there’s a couple reasons why beef liver would be supportive across the board in these populations. All three, honestly. Yeah.
Amanda Montalvo [00:40:04]:
It’s just, you got to go slow. I like to. I’ll often encourage, like, beef kidney that has dao enzyme in it. That can be really helpful. Like, if you want to do a combination of them. There’s even some supplements that have both in them. But, yeah, it’s definitely something that you want to go slow with. Okay, so we’ve covered the functional, conventional everything.
Amanda Montalvo [00:40:25]:
Our view of mast cell activation syndrome. You covered pots. Let’s end it with hypermobility. What is the conventional kind of take? How do we conventionally treat hypermobility?
Michelle Shapiro [00:40:37]:
I started laughing when you asked that, because I’m like, is there one? I don’t know if there isn’t one.
Amanda Montalvo [00:40:41]:
Because we’ve had too many clients that are like, yeah, I saw hypermobility, doctor, and I got the diagnosis, and then that’s it.
Michelle Shapiro [00:40:47]:
Exactly. And also, we don’t even know what to look out for with it. So this is something where I normally don’t tell people to do this, you have to go to someone who specializes in it. Yeah. And I really appreciate pts and chiropractors who specialize in this, because the name of the game with hypermobility is. Is reconditioning and not overusing and or putting yourself into a situation where you’re going to get into a flare or anything like that. So exercise is so important in hypermobility. And then again, anything that helps you build muscle and that helps build up connective tissue is going to be so important, but you really have to not push your body past a point that it feels safe.
Michelle Shapiro [00:41:29]:
And then also, there’s a lot about muscle stabilization. Like, a lot of people with hypermobility have upper cervical instability. So when I found out I even had hypermobility was because I went to a chiropractor who was not trained in hypermobility, because I was getting really dizzy when I started driving. And when I started because I hadn’t been driving for a long time, living in Manhattan, like, you don’t have a car in Manhattan. And then I started driving again, and I started getting really dizzy. So I went to a chiropractor who did this whole adjustment on my neck. Please, I can’t even. I can’t even think about it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:42:00]:
I don’t even want to think about it. This was so traumatic.
Michelle Shapiro [00:42:03]:
It was so traumatic even for you. Like, my best friends, like my family, everyone was, like, freaking out. And I left there. He was digging into my neck, and he was like, I’ve never felt anything so tight before. I left there, and I couldn’t see. I went straight to the ER, basically because my heart rate was 180 sitting. I could not get my heart rate down. And basically, what I want people to understand is there’s huge nerves and brain structures in your neck because it’s like it pokes down in the back of your neck.
Michelle Shapiro [00:42:27]:
And those nerves control, like your vagus nerve, we’ve heard about a million times, controls your heart rate, it controls what muscles should be used. So if you. Anything that happens to your neck is going to happen to the rest of your body. So this is the most important thing I can say when it comes to hypermobility. Do not let a masseuse touch your neck. If you suspect that you have hypermobility, don’t let a chiropractor who doesn’t specialize in hypermobility touch your neck. Don’t do anything like that unless you know and have ruled out hypermobility. The assessment for hypermobility takes five minutes, by the way.
Amanda Montalvo [00:42:58]:
Yeah.
Michelle Shapiro [00:42:59]:
Every single chiromept should be doing an assessment for hypermobility because it should.
Amanda Montalvo [00:43:02]:
I don’t know how they don’t. I would be.
Michelle Shapiro [00:43:04]:
I think they think about it.
Amanda Montalvo [00:43:05]:
Isn’t it a liability? I don’t know. I just feel like it’s a huge liability to not check because 50% of the population has hypermobility. Again, I think this information is just getting out there now. Hopefully this helps. I, hopefully there’s chiropractors listening. They’re like, oh, my gosh. I know I have a lot of carers in my audience. So we’re not against chiropractic care, obviously.
Michelle Shapiro [00:43:26]:
But do we love them? I’m talking about a chiropractor. All these episodes.
Amanda Montalvo [00:43:29]:
I know, exactly. And you, like, you went to a chiropractor because you’re like, okay, this is, I know this typically makes me feel better. So you go get. Obviously didn’t go great, but you were talking about how the assessment only takes like five minutes.
Michelle Shapiro [00:43:46]:
Five minute assessment, yeah. Yep, that’s it. And they’re just literally like checking. Move your joint this way, move your muscle this way. Show me. And like, it’s very clear. And then really, people who are hypermobile are not eligible for any upper cervical adjustments, massages, anything. No one touches your neck.
Michelle Shapiro [00:44:00]:
I don’t even want people touching my neck if I’m not hypermobile, by the way. I’m pretty, like, it’s really scary because there’s brain structures there. I have had clients who’ve had strokes from getting adjustments from something that happened with their brain stem in the back of their head. It’s like, just be very careful with your neck especially. And what had happened to me was all the like, joints in my neck were loosened, and I couldn’t hold my head up. So I was in a neck brace seeing clients for months.
Amanda Montalvo [00:44:25]:
It was.
Michelle Shapiro [00:44:26]:
Remember when we were zooming, me, you, and jillian? Like, literally just.
Amanda Montalvo [00:44:30]:
You had me laying in certain positions.
Michelle Shapiro [00:44:32]:
Exactly.
Amanda Montalvo [00:44:33]:
Like. Or, like, even after all the mold stuff, I remember, like, you’d be like, I’m just gonna lay down the ground. I’m like, okay, this isn’t normal, Michelle. Like, having to lay down on the.
Michelle Shapiro [00:44:42]:
Ground because you know me for so long, it was like, so not. It was so not myself. But that was really set this all what set the pots off for me. Upper cervical instability, like, the joints in your neck being loose is actually a huge risk factor for pots, so. And you don’t always feel it as pain. You don’t always know, but I couldn’t hold my head up on its own. Like, I literally, to wear a neck brace, to hold my head up for a very long time, longer than I would have wanted. And then I had to do, like, next stabilization things after.
Michelle Shapiro [00:45:11]:
And really, again, the goal in hypermobility is you got to have those muscles holding you up because you’re not going to have the joints to do it because the joints are not going to be created in the same way if you have a genetic connective tissue disorder. So the muscle is really going to be your stabilizer. That’s what’s going to hold you up. And then it’s just really important for all of these conditions to not overuse muscles, to not over exercise and under eat. It’s going to set the whole thing off so you can have a hypermobility thing that sets your mcas off, you know, mcas thing, because mcas lives in your connective tissue, too. So they’re all connected. They’re all right there. And your nervous system and your connective tissue communicate constantly also.
Amanda Montalvo [00:45:48]:
Yeah. So it’s like finding someone that has experience, like, I’m going to link to the hypermobility chiropractor that we’re always talking about. I’ll link to her. I’m like, sometimes I’m scared, too, because I’m like, I don’t want you to get so busy that, like, you can’t help my clients.
Michelle Shapiro [00:46:03]:
It’s fine. I’ve been connecting Taylor on other podcasts. I have to accept that she’s. But you know what? Taylor also has an entire practitioner program for other Cairos. If they’re listening to train them on hypermobility, it’s fantastic. So we’ll have everyone, we’ll all be able to do these assessments.
Amanda Montalvo [00:46:20]:
It’ll be amazing, so many more people that are educated on this. It’s a really big thing. So I’ll link to her resources. But it’s like, again, like it doesn’t. I feel like if you have hypermobility and you go to a doctor and then you can feel very discouraged, like they’re basically like, there’s not that much genetic. Yeah, but it’s like there’s a lot that you can do. It’s just, it’s learning and understanding what the condition is, what impacts it. So I really hope that everyone listening has learned a lot from this episode we tried to go through, you know, what’s the conventional approach, what’s functional and sound, what’s probably not going to help you and then what? Michelle has the most experience with helping her clients.
Amanda Montalvo [00:47:02]:
So is there anything else you want to add?
Michelle Shapiro [00:47:05]:
I think just from a very high level perspective that there is no symptom too big that you can, that you can’t get out of. There’s no too late for any of you. There’s no to anything. I’m talking to you from Amanda. We’ve been sitting talking for three, over three. We would, by the way, like literally 3 hours. There was a time when me and you would be zooming and I literally had to turn my camera off and lay back completely. I can now sit up for 3 hours.
Michelle Shapiro [00:47:36]:
I can drive, I can do anything. And you have to just hold that vision of that endgame for yourself so much. The other thing is from a limbic system, nervous system perspective, there are amazing programs that are like treatments for pots and mcas and me CFS and hypermobility, like support, which are literally just brain programs. There’s one called the Gupta program, which is incredible, primal trust. People love DNS and all of them literally, you’re treating the body through the brain. So all of these are a very top down approach and just know that. But being silly about believing and it feeling corny and it feeling like it’s no reason, that is the first thing you’re going to do for any of these conditions. And it’s enough.
Michelle Shapiro [00:48:17]:
Like it will kick you off and it will get you started. That was the biggest change for me that took me from being so sick. And then I also have to say just information, because, Amanda, there was nothing, there was no information for me. I couldn’t find it outside of Taylor, who we talked about now a hundred times. I couldn’t get information from anywhere besides Reddit. So that’s why we really made the highly sensitive body hub. And I brought in Amanda. I brought in these amazing practitioners to give us your best stuff that no one else is getting anywhere because we need it all in one place.
Michelle Shapiro [00:48:49]:
Because these conditions travel together often. One thing I want to specify with that, too, that I get a lot of questions about. You don’t have to have all three to have one. It just happens to happen a lot of. But you can totally just be hypermobile, asymptomatic, hypermobile. You can just have mcas. You don’t have to have hypermobility to have mcas or something like that. You can have one or the other.
Michelle Shapiro [00:49:09]:
They just happen to all interface in a specific way.
Amanda Montalvo [00:49:12]:
But we do kind of think pots is a result of pots.
Michelle Shapiro [00:49:16]:
Pots is the only one. Pots is the only one. And I think pots and hypermobility are friends, too. I think that you have to have a long term mcas in order to have pots. I just don’t see it being an independent condition, which is very rare because no pots doctors, none talk about mcas at the same time, I’ve never seen it happen.
Amanda Montalvo [00:49:33]:
Mind blowing to me because I’m like, there’s no way you don’t recognize that a lot of their symptoms are also related to mcas. So I hope this is helpful, encouraging if you’re wanting more resources. That’s what Michelle made the highly sensitive body hub for. It is amazing. I mean, there’s nothing else like it out there. And it’s more just that if you’re looking for information to help you actually make changes. Like, she talked about, like, there’s like, the whole system for creating, like, what’s going to be. I always think of it as like a go bag.
Amanda Montalvo [00:50:05]:
Like, what’s going to be, like, your go bag for your symptoms that you’re going to have with you to help you, rather than spiraling and researching on the Internet for hours or scrolling on Instagram trying to find information and like, trying the next thing. Like, it’s just. That is so stressful. And I have so many clients that struggle with that. They’re like, I just can’t, like, research anymore. I’ve been on this research hole. I never finish anything because I’m always on to the next. You don’t have to do that.
Amanda Montalvo [00:50:36]:
The hub has made it so that all the resources are in one place. So you’re not only going to get like, mast cell activation, histamine issues, pot stuff, but Taylor’s in there as well with the hypermobility stuff. So of course it’s truly amazing. I have already recommended to a lot of our clients that struggle with it because again, it’s like they have us. But it’s also nice to hear from other people. Like, you learn differently from everyone. And there is just a great list of practitioners in there. Post Covid people, please.
Michelle Shapiro [00:51:09]:
This is my favorite thing about it, if I don’t mind saying, my favorite thing about this damn thing is that we all just hustle to build. Because I was like, this is eating me alive that I have this and I’m sitting on it. I need to give this to people and hand it like, I need to put it out of me. It’s in me and I need to put it out of me was I found that I couldn’t find answers based on the symptoms I was experiencing. So there’s actually a whole section where you can search based on symptoms. So we have the most predictable symptoms, like dizziness, pain, brain fog, digestive issues. And you can look acid reflux. You can look for help based on that, or you can look based on I want to learn some herbal support.
Michelle Shapiro [00:51:51]:
Olivia has Olivia Matrono organic. Olivia has an entire herbal course within this. So there’s like many courses in addition to types of support you could need. Because I know what the experience is like and being in that symptomatic state, like, I wanted to think, Michelle, you’re in that mode where how do you get the information you need? And I wanted to make it as easy as possible for people to do that.
Amanda Montalvo [00:52:13]:
Yeah. So it really is a great resource as of this recording. I mean, it’s probably going to shift eventually, but it’s very inexpensive, guys. So if you need a good resource, get it now. Because I’m sure things are going to shift as it evolves in the future. And I I think that’s it. I just want to encourage everyone because I know people are going to want more information. That’s where it is.
Amanda Montalvo [00:52:38]:
We do have it somewhere for you. When we did the reflux episode, we’re like, oh, my gosh, people want more information on histamines. We don’t have somewhere to send them. And so when Michelle was like telling me about this project, I was like, oh, thank God, thank God, because I need somewhere to refer people to. Because like you said, it’s really easy to be on the Internet researching your symptoms and not finding any answers. So I hope this podcast and the last one helped give you some of those answers. And if you need more help beyond this point, I highly recommend the program. If you prefer more one on one work.
Amanda Montalvo [00:53:09]:
Michelle does work one on one with clients as well as her five practitioners as well, and I think that’s it. But thanks so much for coming on again. It was nice to see your face and chat for a million hours before we recorded, and now my baby’s finally peacefully asleep because we’re all done.
Michelle Shapiro [00:53:26]:
Well, of course, because we were recording for 3 hours, so obviously the baby falls asleep now. I mean, obviously that’s how it works, but love you.
Amanda Montalvo [00:53:33]:
I’m sure we’ll have you back on the podcast. Well, I’ll see what kind of questions everyone has after hearing this, and we’ll definitely have you back on. But that’s it until the next episode. So thanks everyone, for listening, and I’ll see you next week. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Are You menstrual podcast. If you want to support my work, please leave a review and let me know how you like the episode. This lets me know, like, what you guys want more of, less of. I read every single one, and I appreciate them more than you know.
Amanda Montalvo [00:54:01]:
If you want to keep learning, you can get access to the bonus episode and additional resources on patreon.com hormonehealingrd. I’d love to have you in there. Thanks again, and I will see you in the next episode.
