S8 E05: Understanding & Fixing The Root Cause of Acne | Colleen Clesen

Posted on October 13th, 2025

Work 1:1 with Colleen to heal your acne here.

What if your acne isn’t really about your skin at all?

In this episode, I’m joined by Colleen Clesen, an aesthetician with a background in nutrition and dietetics. After struggling with her own breakouts and realizing how limited both dermatology and standard aesthetics training were, she went back to school to fill in the missing piece. Now she helps women connect the dots between acne, hormones, gut health, and daily skincare.We get into why gut health is usually the first place to look, what stool tests actually reveal, and how inflammation in the body shows up on your face. We also talk about the mistakes most people make with their skincare routines, why supporting the skin barrier matters as much as internal work, and how the liver and bile clearance play a critical role in clearing acne. It’s an honest look at what really drives breakouts and what can actually help.

You’ll Learn:

[00:00] Introduction
[01:00] The real reason Colleen became an aesthetician
[04:00] Why acne isn’t just a skin issue but a red flag of internal imbalance
[05:00] Gut-first: the surprising reason location of breakouts doesn’t matter
[07:00] Stool test markers that reveal hidden inflammation, estrogen problems, and acne triggers
[14:00] Scalp flare-ups as a signal your gut and immune system are exhausted
[17:00] The one simple thing Colleen has clients add to their diet that quickly improves skin and hormones
[21:00] Why most acne products wreck the skin barrier and what to do instead
[32:00] The truth about beef tallow on acne-prone skin
[47:00] How sluggish liver detox and bile flow recirculate hormones and fuel breakouts
[59:00] The first step Colleen recommends if you can only change one thing

Resources Mentioned:

Psyllium Husk Powder | Website
Kossma Squalane Oil | Website
Kossma Cleansing Gel | Website
Red Light Face Mask | Website
Green Envee Firm Collagen Gel Masque | Website
Green Envee Rejuvenate Brightening Enzyme Masque | Website
Clearstem Aloe Based Moisturizer, Hydraglow | Website
CeraVe | Website
NuDerma Professional High Frequency Wand | Website
Cosmo Cleansing Gel | Website
Lymphatic Course for Head & Neck | Website
Hormone Healing podcast episode on Intro to Lymph Flow with Leah | Website
Work 1:1 with Colleen to heal your acne here.
Get Instant access to the FREE Functional Thyroid Series here.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Acne is not driven by dirty skin. It’s driven by inflammation. Internally, we need to focus on calming things down to calm down inflammation. Stop washing your face. That’s the first thing I say, and people freak out. Sweat is a natural exfoliant. You can just rinse that with water. You don’t have to scrub your sweat off your face.

[00:00:15] The insulin piece, the androgen, estrogen, progesterone, and the stress hormones, it’s all gonna be impacted by gut health. You can’t ignore your gut microbiome when it comes to your skin. If you do it the right way, then you can get rid of acne forever. If you’re not eating McDonald’s every day and wearing makeup, you’re taking care of yourself and nothing’s moving the needle on your acne, then we probably need to take a look at the liver a little bit.

[00:00:37] Closer. If someone were coming to you and they’re like, I’m really struggling with my acne, what’s the first thing you would have someone do? If we’re talking like budget friendly, I would just

[00:00:55] welcome to the Hormone Healing RD podcast where you’ll get clear, practical guidance for your healing [00:01:00] journey. I’m Amanda Montalvo, women’s health dietician and mineral expert. After helping thousands of women in navigating my own healing, I know how overwhelming the wellness world can be. This show cuts through the noise with simple research backed insights on hormones, minerals, and what your body truly needs to heal.

[00:01:17] And in this particular episode, I am actually talking to my one-on-one nutritionist, Colleen. She’s on my hormone healing RD nutrition team. She’s amazing. Um, she has a really, really. I would just say interesting and crazy health history and journey that brought her here. We’re focusing on her acne journey and how she became, how she came to be a holistic aesthetician in this episode.

[00:01:42] But she also, you know, she’s a mom. She’s got, uh, two little girls, identical twin girls and a 4-year-old boy. They’re adorable. And she went to college for nutrition, dietetics, and then just spent. All of her time really digging [00:02:00] into acne, gut healing research. She also had cancer and so that’s like a huge part of her health history as well.

[00:02:08] But she’s so smart. I mean, if I could download her brain, I absolutely would. We covered so much in this episode. And really the, the major goal is that we wanted to get into is to simplify acne. I think it’s one of those things where like you see like the acne face mapping. You hear people talk about, oh, I have hormonal acne.

[00:02:27] Oh no, it’s like stress related acne. It’s blood sugar, insulin resistance related, um, gut related. It’s usually more than just one thing and one theme that we have seen in our practice is there’s always a gut component to acne there. There definitely was for mine. Colleen has a whole history with like gut histamine issues and she’s worked with hundreds of women on healing their acne, and there’s always gonna be some sort of gut.

[00:02:53] Liver bile component there. And so what we cover in this episode, we get into the gut piece, the gut [00:03:00] microbiome, how that impacts your skin and detox pathways and all that stuff. Hormones. ’cause really your gut touches everything. It’s not just your gut and your. The microbiome on your skin. It also impacts how we use hormones in the body, how we are producing them, how we’re processing things like estrogen, how we’re detoxing estrogen, and then inflammation.

[00:03:21] And there’s always an inflammatory component to acne. It really is an inflammatory condition. So gut is huge. We then get into the skin barrier and we talk about things that maybe aren’t so helpful for supporting your skin barrier. I share how I destroyed my skin barrier when I was younger. And then how you can actually simplify your skincare routine and improve that skin barrier function, which is a huge piece as well with clearing up your skin.

[00:03:46] And then finally we get into liver. We talk a lot about bile, uh, ’cause it’s a huge component to acne as well, and how you can support those areas. So I have like a million links for this episode. There’s a ton of resources. And then for Patreon, [00:04:00] I the bonus episode for them. Um, this week is, well, they get the episodes a week early, so it was last week.

[00:04:06] But their bonus episode is a liver and bile guide. So if you’re like, I loved learning more about the stuff that you talked about in this episode, and I want more like concrete, here are the brands, the dosages, the recommendations that is what’s in that liver and bile guide. So if you want access to that, you can go to patreon.com/hormone Healing Rd and join us over there.

[00:04:26] Alright, that’s it. I hope you guys enjoy Colleen and this episode. Thank you so much for being here. Colleen, can you share a little bit of your background with, when it comes to acne specifically and when you decided to become an aesthetician in the first place? So, I originally always had occasional breakouts and then I went off birth control.

[00:04:47] And I broke out, like insane. And I, here I was, you know, going to school for nutrition and dietetics, taking care of myself, eating healthy. And I’m like, why am I breaking out? So I got really intrigued with skincare. Um, and at the [00:05:00] time I was living in black mold, probably a little bit more stress than I should have been.

[00:05:03] So there was lots of factors besides just the birth control, but I just was very intrigued with skincare. So later in my late twenties after going to school for nutrition dietetics, I went back to school for skincare. Um, I got my aesthetic license and I just realized it was like a missing puzzle piece in my practice.

[00:05:21] I was dealing with women’s, um, hormones and a lot of them had acne, but if they were to try and go get skincare help, whether it was at the dermatologist, they were just prescribing, um, blood pressure medicine topicals. Um, and then if I, you know, was like, well, let’s go see an esthetician to get skincare. A lot of estheticians didn’t actually have background knowledge on acne.

[00:05:42] So it just, I was like, all right, well I’m gonna go learn it myself and try to help my clients. So I went back to school for that and um, it became kind of a passion and a fun side of my practice in helping women with their skincare. And in turn, I got to clear up my own skin. And it’s so funny. Or obviously [00:06:00] Colleen’s like new to the podcast, but she’s on my team and stuff.

[00:06:03] And like our joke is that Colleen does everything. Like, she’s like literally done everything. I feel like you have such an expansive background because you’re also a Mercy Aid therapist and stuff, so it’s like, you know, Colleen’s done it all and apparently you’re a great event planner. So yeah, when I get obsessed, I like jump in.

[00:06:22] I love it. That’s definitely my personality too. Um, and yeah, I did sim very similar background with acne. I had really bad acne my whole life and I took so many antibiotics for it, like in high school, so bad. I mean, I think that’s common. Most people are like, I’ve gone on antibiotics, it clears up when I’m on antibiotics and then I get off and it just comes back with a vengeance, which is, you know, a huge sign that there’s a gut component.

[00:06:45] For acne. Oh, for sure. Totally. Especially when we see it in like younger kids and teenagers too. We’re like, okay, there’s something gut related going on. Yeah, and I think that’s the big thing and the, the goal of this podcast episode where we’re just trying to dig more [00:07:00] into, because I, I feel like with acne now, I mean with any topic, it’s like there’s always, they’re trying to like put them into categories, right?

[00:07:07] It’s like PCOS, like when you try to, oh, you have adrenal PCOS or insulin resistance, PCOS. And like with acne, it’s very similar, whether it be like, oh, you have gut driven acne, liver, I see stress, like cortisol driven acne categories, hormonal acne. Everyone’s like, no, it’s hormonal. I’m like, is it the whole, is it fully hormonal?

[00:07:29] And so the goal really here is so that we can dig into why we think there is a gut component for most women with acne. And how, you know, it doesn’t mean that it’s just one thing if you, you can have. It’s never just one. It’s usually like, yeah, you have stress hormone issues, sex hormone issues, and liver and gut issues.

[00:07:50] It’s, it’s probably a little bit of everything. Um, so do you wanna talk about why gut health typically comes first with acne and how it’s [00:08:00] like not just a skin issue? Yeah, definitely. Um, and I think this is something, obviously this wasn’t taught in my, like when I did my aesthetic school. The aesthetics is more so just learning about the actual skin and, um, how to treat it.

[00:08:13] But when you come from like a functional practitioner mindset, uh, usually acne reflects like an internal imbalances, not just external imbalances, which is what most people are trying to treat, just the outside, not the inside. And so it’s usually just treated as a surface level skin issue. Um, but many cases it’s just deeper internal imbalances, usually related to gut health, hormones, blood sugar, and inflammation.

[00:08:35] So it’s kind of like a perfect package or perfect storm. Um, so as our body’s rhythm cells have toxins through sweat, urination, bowel movements in our skin, our skin is kind of one of those main areas where we’re seeing inflammation and breakouts. It’s like a red flag in the body telling us that something’s going on internally.

[00:08:52] And what’s cool about stool tests are we can kind of see what’s going on and what’s triggering inflammation and in turn, creating more acne. So it’s [00:09:00] like a nice place to start first that gives us legitimate information to go off of, to treat it. And do you find for most of your clients, like no matter where the acne is located, before we started hit record, I asked Colleen her thoughts about face mapping for acne.

[00:09:15] So if you wanna share your thoughts on that, I think that will be fun. Um, do you find that like. Working on the gut first, no matter where you think the issue’s coming from is what helps resolve it long term? Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Like if you have acne on your forehead or if you have acne on your chin, which is obviously always thought of as like cystic hormonal acne, POS acne, no matter what, it’s, you gotta go to the gut first.

[00:09:39] It doesn’t matter if it’s related to the small intestine or the liver or the bladder. Inflammation is usually stemming from the gut. So we would go to the gut no matter where it’s at on your face. ’cause there’s just such a huge gut skin access that we’re trying to tap into to see what’s causing those breakouts and that inflammation.

[00:09:56] Specifically, do you see certain [00:10:00] patterns or specific imbalances on a stool test with different types of acne or just acne in general? So usually we see patterns of like dysbiosis, so like overgrowth of some of the bad bacteria and undergrowth of our good bacteria. So we might see like Marella, um.

[00:10:20] Things like that. E coli, overgrowing. And then we’ll see very low, uh, levels of lactobacillus bifido akkermansia now, which is kind of like a hot topic, uh, bacteria that people are hearing more and more about. But that one too, I’ll see a lot of times really, really low. It’s, um, triggered as like a metabolic, um, bacteria, but it is linked to skin issues and like inflammation issues.

[00:10:42] A lot of times we’ll see fungal overgrowth. That’s a huge one too. So candida, uh, markers and whatnot. And I’ll say there’s a lot more in younger kids too, like in teens. So if I see teens for acne usually starts right when they’ve started getting their cycle. They’ll start breaking out. Um, they’ll have a history of like skin fungal issues and [00:11:00] like ringworm and things like that.

[00:11:01] Um, and so when we get a gut test, we’ll usually get it back that there is fungal overgrowth. So it’s kind of like systemically causing inflammation. So with on top of the candida and fungal, we’ll usually look to see if we have like too much inflammation in the gut. Um, so on stool tests that can show us with calprotectin or ary iga, these are just different markers that suggest like gut inflammation.

[00:11:22] Um, and when we have gut inflammation, usually we’ll have immune activation. So when we have the immune system overreacting, that just correlates with inflammatory skin conditions such as acne, we can always look for like digestion absorption issues. So stool tests can help us see like, is your pancreas creating enough enzyme output?

[00:11:38] Do you have fat in your stool? Um, are you fermenting fiber correctly? So these markers can help see if we have poor digestion absorption. And if that’s true, usually then we’re not absorbing like zinc, the omegas, uh, vitamin a different antioxidants through our food and that can make acne even harder to heal.

[00:11:56] And then of course we have parasites and pathogens. So [00:12:00] parasites are kind of another hot topic right now. Some stool tests can. Detect them. Some can’t always catch them if they’re hiding, but if we have those pop up, we know for sure we probably have chronic inflammation and just the immune system’s kind of stressed out.

[00:12:13] So those are big triggers we try to look for in the stool test that we would never know if we didn’t order a stool test to even tackle those things. And I feel like people always bring up the estrogen piece and how estrogen dominance of course can definitely trigger acne. I mean it, it puts stress on your liver can lead to blood sugar imbalances can have a big impact on the thyroid, which I definitely wanna talk about.

[00:12:37] Since that is very hypo acne is very common with hypothyroidism. But what is the marker on the stool test that can give you some insight into how estrogen is being detoxified? Yeah, I think it’s like one of my favorite markers when I get a stool test back, I go to it right away. I think it’s the one I always wanna see where it’s at.

[00:12:55] Um, but beta glucuronidase on the stool test can help us see how we’re [00:13:00] breaking down and excreting estrogen. Um, and so that’s a huge marker. So for example, like if we get someone who has endometriosis, we’ll usually see that slightly elevated. Um, if I get someone who has really bad. Skin breakouts and irregular cycles, I’ll see it elevated.

[00:13:14] Um, it’s just a nice marker to see that we are having trouble clearing estrogen from the body. And, um, the gut estrogen connection is just so big because poor gut health contributes to estrogen dominance and when turn, we all know estrogen’s impacting our skin. So really trying to like correlate that, yes, it’s oxygen and cycle related, but also it’s stemming from your gut.

[00:13:35] It’s kind of a nice connection to make for clients to get that back on a stool test and validation that okay, we do need to, you know, target this and help, um, balance oxygen and that and that sort and more knowing like I. Where it’s coming from. Because I think that’s the hard part is like a lot of our clients will have done hormone testing and they’re like, well, my estrogen’s high.

[00:13:56] Or they go through a list and they have all the symptoms of estrogen [00:14:00] dominance. And the question, I’m like, okay, but why? Why is the estrogen high? And of course, minerals are a big piece of this. Absolutely. ’cause they’re gonna have a huge impact on how much progesterone you’re making, how you’re using all these things.

[00:14:13] Copper can lead to excess, estrogen, things like that. But the gut is really the other huge component to understand why is your estrogen actually high? Oh, totally. Because like with hormonal acne. When we, when we hear hormonal acne, hormonal acne usually means it’s acne that develops during, like a shift in your hormone.

[00:14:32] So whether that’s an ovulation when oxygen’s increasing or when your, um, menstrual cycle starts. But usually it’s a shift in, it could be androgens, estrogen, or progesterone. Um, it usually just reflects an internal hormonal balance. So either the ovaries, the adrenals, maybe we have insulin metabolism issues, um, but they’re internally impacting like c production.

[00:14:53] So most people are having grier dirtier skin. Um, your skin cell turnover might not be as efficient, which is like [00:15:00] with the hypothyroid you’re talking about. Um, that’s usually a big one. And then if your skin’s not turning over, you’re gonna get quicker breakouts. Um, and then just inflammation. I always keep going back to inflammation ’cause acne is an inflammation issue, but the big picture is that there’s gut dysbiosis and that’s what’s altering your hormone metabolism.

[00:15:16] It’s not the hormones itself, it’s usually the gut dysbiosis that’s causing it. And then obviously other issues in the body. Since the DO microbiome is helping to regulate estrogen and those androgens, we need to kind of see what is causing them to be, um, kind of outta whack and causing these issues. And the, that’s where the, you know, getting the stool test really helps us see the bigger picture.

[00:15:36] And I think a lot of people don’t fully grasp that, that your. Gut microbiome literally dictates how you use hormones in the body. You know, it, it has such a big impact on that. And so like I’ll see so many women that they’re, they have good, strong ovulation, but they don’t get all the benefits of that progesterone because they have so much inflammation and things going on in [00:16:00] their gut.

[00:16:00] And I’m like, you can take all the bioidentical progesterone that you want, but it’s not going, it’s not gonna be used for what you want it to be used for. The body’s gonna prioritize other things, and I think it can be very similar with like high androgens, even insulin resistance. You talked about akkermansia before and how that’s like a hot topic bacteria now because how it can affect our metabolism.

[00:16:20] Your gut microbiome can affect insulin sensitivity and things like that. It’s also a stressor, like if you having chronic inflammation in the gut, it is a chronic low grade stressor on the body, so it really touches. The insulin piece, the androgen, estrogen, progesterone, and the stress hormones, like it’s all gonna be impacted by gut health, which is why we’re like, you can’t ignore, you can’t ignore your gut microbiome when it comes to your skin.

[00:16:45] It’s just so critical. So what tests do you typically like to do? Are there multiple tests that you like? Does it matter what testing you kind of do? I mean, right now we just start with like the GI map stool test. I think that’s like the gold standard right now to [00:17:00] see what is going on. Um, I do like doing some hormonal testing if.

[00:17:05] Let’s say someone has a history of birth control use and the cycles seem a little regular, and we are concerned that their acne is triggered psych like cyclically with their hormones. Then we’ll do, um, I do like tracking some hormones to see like, okay, are we getting, um, estrogen rises? Are we possibly having signs of estrogen dominance?

[00:17:25] Do we have a progesterone rise? Um, are we even ovulating? Because if we’re not ovulate ovulating, we know that’s something too that we have to, while we have to work on the gut, we have to pinpoint like, what’s going on hormonally, why are we not ovulating? So usually those are like the two I will do. Um, and even if someone’s like, I don’t need a stool test.

[00:17:42] My, I don’t have digestive issues, that’s kind of another thing. People, like, I don’t have digestive issues. It’s just my skin. I’m like, well, you can still think you have normal bowel movements and, you know, no digestive issues, but get a stool test back and we can find a ton of stuff on it. Like even if you don’t think you’re symptomatic, I see that all the time of, and, and like, that’s why [00:18:00] I have like a whole list of.

[00:18:02] Other symptoms that are signs that you need a stool test. Even if you don’t have gut issues. It’s, I mean, even just think about like mental health wise, like anxiety, depression, that any like brain fog, focus, attention issues, those are all like huge signs. Skin, any skin stuff. Eczema, especially dandruff, psoriasis, acne, the scalp is huge.

[00:18:25] Do you wanna talk a little, I know we’re talking about acne. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? Yeah, so that was another place that I like Dove pretty hard into, ’cause I did have scalp issues along with acne issues and um, I mean, a lot of times everyone thinks scalp, so we’re thinking like dry, itchy scalp.

[00:18:40] Um, whether it’s like patchy, crusty, flaky. Everyone thinks like fungus because that’s, if you Google it, it’ll say you have fungus growing. Um, but it’s like, could be an array of things. So usually if I see people who are prone to like acne or just skin sensitivities, like they get hives very easily. Um, usually they’ll have bouts throughout the year, [00:19:00] depending on seasons and where they live, where they have really poor scalp health, just a buildup.

[00:19:05] And it doesn’t matter if they wash their hair every day or if they go four days without washing their hair. It’s like there. And a lot of times this just to me just screams gut health. It’s like there is inflammation. Like our turnover on our scalp is very quickly too. And depending on how often you wash your hair, it’s just signaling that we have something like festering.

[00:19:23] We have inflammation in the body trying to leave the body. And I always think of a stool test and when I hear scalp issues, I’m like, oh, we need to see what’s going on with your, with your stool. Like that’s the first place I go. And those are the people that that we talk. You mentioned that marker, the secretory iga or secretary IGA marker, that that.

[00:19:40] Is a sign of like inflammation, immune system function. When I see scalp issues, psoriasis, things like that, I often see very low secretory iga, like very low levels. Like their immune system is exhausted. It’s just been through the ringer. That’s they’re, they probably had gut issues for a really long time and that I often see that [00:20:00] with like eczema, the scalp stuff, like all of that.

[00:20:03] And their gut is just exhausted. Totally. And I think sometimes people don’t realize their gut is, they’ve just gotten so immune to feeling the way they feel that once we do tackle gut and they start feeling normal again, they’re like, oh, I actually did have gut issues. I just didn’t realize I did. ’cause they were so normal to me.

[00:20:21] And I hear that a lot too. ’cause they’re just. You get used to like the way you feel, you don’t realize you can feel better. Yeah. And even bloating. I see that all the time of, oh my gosh, I didn’t realize I was bloated until I wasn’t, because I’m just so, I was so used to feeling that way. Let’s talk about, so that’s the gut piece.

[00:20:37] Ideally we do some sort of stool testing that helps you figure out exactly what imbalances you have. Is there anything, are there, like, we’re gonna talk about the skin barrier in the liver as well next, but is there anything with the gut that you recommend that you can generally do to support yourself?

[00:20:55] Or like certain things, depending on certain symptoms that people have that you think are okay to do [00:21:00] without testing? I am gonna have a whole podcast episode on how to support your gut without a stool test. So. You guys can tune into that one, but anything that you like to have people do without testing, just like even if you’re trying to get some relief off the bat.

[00:21:16] Yeah, so it sounds so silly, but like my number one thing I do with most clients when we first meet if they have skin issues, is I’m like, okay, while we wait on test results or whatnot, I want you to start. Like working on fiber, specifically soluble fiber for the gut. And this is simply because soluble fiber will help bind to bile.

[00:21:35] And bile is what packages up estrogen very nicely and deposits it to be left and removed from our stool. And so I find a lot of people are not consuming enough soluble fiber, or even just this day and age, like the world we live in, we just need more bile support. And so whenever I see acne, I think bile and I’m just like, go to Whole Foods, go on Amazon, wherever you have to go, just go buy some, um, [00:22:00] organic, like finely ground, solium husk, um, simple soluble fiber.

[00:22:03] You can add it to food, you can add it in water, but it’s usually like the first thing I’ll have people do. And right away people are like, oh my gosh, like I am pooping more. Um, my skin started clearing up or my, I wasn’t, didn’t have PMS with that last cycle and it was just from adding in soluble fiber every day.

[00:22:20] So that’s like the first thing I would do if no one had testing done yet and we just wanted to take baby steps while we waited on results. I usually add that in and it tolerated well because it’s not fermentable, so it doesn’t really cause people many issues. Um, if somebody does have a history of constipation, it can help, sometimes it can bind, so we’ll just say drink more water.

[00:22:39] But it’s usually like the simplest thing. I’ll just be like, let’s focus on fiber first. I’m happy that you mentioned that it’s not gonna like feed back. ’cause that’s usually the, the fear that I get around fiber. Um. Where people are like, well, I don’t know. I have like all this bloating. They, they don’t wanna fe fuel that fire of potential overgrowth that they have, which is very [00:23:00] smart.

[00:23:00] It’s a very smart consideration to have. But with cilium husk, I, it’s like typically very well tolerated and it’s just kind of, I think it’s like also finding your dose of what works for you. So it’s, I I have actually, um, a chocolate pudding recipe, like a cilium husk chocolate pudding recipe. I’ll put that.

[00:23:20] We have, ’cause we use it for gut protocols, a lot different types of like fibers and stuff. And I’m like, a lot of people, like, they don’t just wanna mix it with water and drink it. I have a pudding recipe. Is there a way that you typically have people consume it? Um, well I share your recipe a lot with clients and then the other way I’ll do it.

[00:23:35] I find that’s a great way to get it with kids. You can also bake with it. I wouldn’t put it in like a smoothie because it is. Kind of gritty and earthy. So it will, you’ll taste it or most people can taste it. So I like it in like warm water. It will never actually dissolve because it’s husk, so it’s not gonna completely dissolve.

[00:23:52] But I feel like it mixes well in a warm glass of water and it’s easy, it just goes down easier. So that’s how I usually drink it. Like we have quite an [00:24:00] obsession with slam husk in my house. Like my husband won’t travel without it ’cause it’s like, it’s just changed his health dramatically. So like he brings it on the airplane with him, he brings it everywhere.

[00:24:09] We’ve gotten stopped at security actually this last summer. We got stopped ’cause he brought, I told him not to pack it in his backpack and he packed the cilium husk in his backpack and we got stuck at security for like 45 minutes because it had to be tested. But it really does, like once you start using it, it, it really helps whether, you know you have digestive issues or it’s skin issues.

[00:24:27] It just really helps clean up the bile, which. Is usually what we need assistance with. Did you say about how much, I usually have people only start with like a teaspoon or half a teaspoon just so that they don’t have a, you know, overreaction to it. But how much do you usually, typically recommend? Yeah, I would not like go in with a whole tablespoon, like that’s a lot.

[00:24:45] I would just do, I do a half a teaspoon first and then you could try that like twice a day, splitting it up and then working up to like one to two teaspoons. You really don’t need more than that. Cool. And we’ll talk a little bit more about bile when we get, when we wrap up with liver. ’cause obviously your liver’s [00:25:00] gonna have a hu huge impact in your bile, but let’s talk about protecting the skin barrier ’cause.

[00:25:05] I think that it’s like we’re not just saying that it’s your gut is everything for your skin. It’s a huge component. I do feel very strongly that topical matters, like I, I’ll hear a lot of people talk about how it’s like it’s an internal issue and like they don’t really think there’s much of a topical component.

[00:25:24] So I’m curious, how do you think our skin barrier can also impact this and then what are just some common mistakes that people are making when it comes to like products that they’re using on their skin if they’re struggling with acne? Yeah, so this is like another huge thing is usually when acne clients come in, they have, like we talk about supplements, like how you have just this, you know, big jar of supplements when most people with skincare issues also have like a big bathroom full of like just so hundreds and hundreds of dollars of products they bought because they were advertised to help.

[00:25:56] And so like many products in the market for acne just disrupt the [00:26:00] delicate microbiome on the skin. ’cause they’re usually trying to like dry up oil or they’re antimicrobial base. Um, so kind of, I think it’s similar to like antibiotics. Like a lot of them are very antimicrobial the same way antibiotics are.

[00:26:11] So we’re just kind of damaging that skin microbiome. And acne is not driven by like dirty skin, it’s driven by inflammation internally. So like we need to focus on calming things down to calm down inflammation. And usually that’s just gentler products that don’t disrupt the skin’s like protective barrier.

[00:26:29] And so again, like with acne, most people are on a mission to destroy and kill. ’cause it just feels like that’s what you need to do to get rid of those breakouts and keep them from spreading since you get one, you pop it, it spreads to the next spot and so on. Um, but like the harsh cleansers and over exfoliation, you got your benzo peroxide, your retinoids, these all lead to like the dysbiosis of the skin.

[00:26:49] So. Which is also why you’ll see a lot of skincare companies nowadays are starting to market probiotics in their skincare. Like they’re saying, oh, you know, we have a probiotic serum, or We have a probiotic [00:27:00] based moisturizer. Because people are recognizing like, okay, like we’re destroying the skin microbiome.

[00:27:04] We have a microbiome, you know, all over our face the same way we do internally. And so. Our scan barrier is like our first line of defense, keeps moisture in and pathogens out, and it has like the perfect pH. Um, and then we have the lipids that nourish the beneficial microbiome. They literally feed them.

[00:27:20] So if we keep trying to wipe away all this oil and grease, then that’s what nourishes our microbiome. It actually starves the good bacteria and then it favors pathogenic bacteria. So it’s kind of like the perfect storm for more acne. And then if you pair this with like poor gut health and systemic inflammation, you just got this like horrible storm of ongoing acne breakouts where you might, you know, kill a few with the antibacterial sucker using, and then more pop up down a line.

[00:27:44] Since we have just lymph, you know, intertwined throughout our entire face, so it spreads very easily. But the lipid barrier layer itself has ceramides fatty acids, cholesterol, and they just lock in that moisture to keep those healthy skin microbiome there and safe. [00:28:00] And so. We just gotta like stop stripping it from the body with all these different acne products.

[00:28:06] ’cause then the bear gets damaged and then irritants, allergens, microbes, anything can basically get in and you already have this inflammatory skin and then just kind of hyperactivates immune system and. Kind of goes haywire. So it’s like that, which I’m sure you’ve heard of or if you’ve ever gone to get a facial, they’re like, oh, are you on the dryer side or the oily side?

[00:28:25] And most people are like, oh, I’m in between like the dryness oil rebound loop where you like strip the dryness, then your sebaceous plans make more oil. And then you have access oil, dysbiosis, acne, and it just keeps going back and forth, back and forth with products. Thyroid health is essential for all areas of our body.

[00:28:41] It’s critical to have healthy hormone balance. It’s important for digestion and making enough digestive juices, energy production. Our thyroid sets the metabolic pace of our bodies, and it can be really frustrating when you have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism, but maybe your labs come back normal. I see that a lot.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] It can also be frustrating if you actually have the diagnosis and maybe nothing that you’re doing is making you feel better, whether that’s hypo or hyperthyroidism, and there’s not a ton of great resources out there, which is why I created my free functional thyroid mini course. I really struggled with thyroid health issues for a long time.

[00:29:18] I tried thyroid medication. It made me feel worse. And so my whole, you know, last decade of women’s health research, a lot of that has been geared towards thyroid function. And so I made a free thyroid mini course that you can access to via the link in the show notes, or you can go to hormone healing rd.com.

[00:29:35] Under my guides and support section, you can find it there and get all the video lessons. I go through different thyroid labs, hair testing and blood labs, as well as other ways to look at your thyroid health at home. And then I talk about nutrition and lifestyle changes you can consider to help optimize your thyroid health.

[00:29:52] And so when it comes to supporting that skin barrier, what do you think is the most important [00:30:00] thing that you wanna consider? I, I learned, ’cause obviously I had a very long acne journey where I literally just stopped washing my face in the morning. To like, not disrupt that skin barrier or just do like a water wash, like wa like, like just with water.

[00:30:16] But that made a huge difference for my skin. It’s something I still do. I do not like cleanse my skin twice today. And if I don’t wear makeup, I don’t like cleanse it at all. And I, I remember being like, okay, but I’ve just been like stripping my skin my whole life using crazy, even oil cleansing I think can be too much.

[00:30:34] And you can share your thoughts on that of like, oh my gosh, what is that brand that like apricot cleanser. See eyes or something. Like literally I would just like strip my skin like crazy and it was so dry. Um, so let me, what are like your thoughts on like what can we actually do to support our skin barrier?

[00:30:54] Uh, and are, are there any products that you’re like, okay, I I, this works for most people with [00:31:00] acne? Yeah. No, I definitely think of the same. Ive, and then like the Oxy, I think like benzo, proxy oxide wipes that like we used to use to wipe our makeup off and your face would be like red and burning afterwards.

[00:31:09] But yeah, so with skincare, literally if I see somebody come in, like at the end place practice I work at, I would be like. Stop washing your face. That’s the first thing I say. And people freak out. I’m like, way too, once a day in the evenings, usually. And sometimes I just say in the shower. ’cause a lot of times, um, in the shower, most people have like, uh, filter heads on their showers nowadays, or at least I feel like people are starting to purchase them.

[00:31:34] And the water’s cleaner than your sink water. So a lot of people, even if you have an in-home filtration system, sometimes there’s the pipes, whether the pipes have, you have copper pipes everywhere, whatnot. A lot of our water in our sink is just not the cleanest water for our face. It can be really inflammatory.

[00:31:48] So first and foremost on like, okay, if you have a filter in your shower, wash your face in the shower and you’re just gonna do it once a day. So just one time stop washing in the morning. Even if you work out in the morning, like sweat is a [00:32:00] natural exfoliant. You don’t always have to wash your face after sweat.

[00:32:03] I think that’s like. A misconception. People think that they sweat, they’re dirty. Um, sweat is a natural exfoliant. So you, like, you can just rinse that with water. You don’t have to scrub your sweat off your face. So just once a day and like simple. So sometimes, and I know this can be annoying ’cause sometimes they’ll a dermatologist and they’re like, oh, just use cve.

[00:32:21] And people are like, oh, this is all a dermatologist adjusted. And I’m like, well the reason why they do that is because there’s a little bit of logic behind that. Well, it may not be an organic, you know, completely non-toxic brand. Um, it’s simple and it’s built with ceramides to help build up the lipid biolayer to kind of recreate your microbiome again on your skin and calm things down.

[00:32:40] So that’s usually why dermatologists do recommend simple things from like that you can buy at the convenience store like CeraVe because they are, they don’t have perfumes in them. They don’t have extra acids. They’re just like ceramides to help build the lipid bilayer back up. So usually I’ll just say, and I’m not that I’m a fan of CeraVe, I don’t, it is what it is.

[00:32:58] Um, not that you have to use that, [00:33:00] but usually just keeping something super simple, just one wash. In the evenings. And then a simple moisturizer. I tend to find when we have inflammation, acne, a moisturizer with like aloe in it is kind of the best thing to go for because aloe, as we know, aloe is like calming for sunburns and whatnot, but it’s really calming when we have, um, inflamed skin.

[00:33:20] So there are a couple brands out there that have more aloe based, like aloe vera based, uh, moisturizers, and that’s like my favorite for people who have irritated skin. It’s just simple. It won’t block, um, the pores and, um, just kind of calm things down. So usually we’ll just start there like no s. Like not doing crazy serums or, you know, spot stuff.

[00:33:39] Just starting with simple, simple skincare. Yeah. So you’re basically not stripping and trying to let the skin do its own thing again, to rebalance the microbiome. Yeah, like if you’re abusing antibiotics, if your gut, it’s the same thing. If you keep stripping your skin with all these acne products, like you literally need to give it a break and let it try and rebuild back up.

[00:33:58] It’s not that you need like same thing though, we don’t [00:34:00] always, you know, pump people full of probiotics. But same thing with skin. It’s not that you need a moisturizer with probiotics in it. I’m not saying that like the body is very smart. It will start to build things up the way it needs to on its own without having to completely supplement with it.

[00:34:13] Um, we just wanna like calm things down so it can do that and heal because I know people are gonna wanna know first I’m gonna actually share it. So one cleansing gel that has worked well for my skin. Everything makes me break out The cosma cleansing gel. Have you tried that one? It’s so gentle. And also it kind of reminds me, it feels similar to CeraVe.

[00:34:34] Yeah. I like all of, all of her brands are like all of her stuff is good. Like her oil serums too, those are very gentle. ’cause she doesn’t use any like essential oils, like straight up essential oils in ’em. Yeah. So that has been great. And I’m curious, the other thing is beef tallow. So let’s talk about using tallow topically.

[00:34:55] I know I feel like people now that there’s more out there about how it’s like it [00:35:00] doesn’t always work for everyone’s skin and it’s okay if it doesn’t work for your skin. And how it’s not quite as like, it’s not always as supportive. But I’m curious like what are your thoughts on Talo for the skin, especially for people with acne?

[00:35:10] ’cause I typically see that it does not work. For my clients that have acne. Yeah. So I’m gonna go back to answer your question first about like a moisturizer that works or, I mean, cleanser wise. So I’ve been as an aesthetician, which is I, every six months I leave myself a little, um, fun room to like try new products.

[00:35:31] It’s like what I just do. And it’s nice ’cause when you’re esthetician you can kind of get a discount on items. So every six months I try new brands and I say it’s for my clients. I’m gonna try ’em for my clients so I can like report back. But it’s a little bit for me too. And so one of the brands that I have just had so much confidence in that I know I can have clients use it and I don’t break out.

[00:35:52] Well there’s, there’s two. One is a local brand that I’ve been using for years, but they’re called Green Envy. Um, they’re a non-toxic small [00:36:00] company. There are stuff I trust. And then, um, another one that’s highly marketed, which I didn’t wanna like. But I do like for people who break out is clear stem. They have an aloe vera based moisturizer.

[00:36:12] It is actually phenomenal. It is, um, really cooling. It calms the skin down. Um, it’s nice about their products too, is they’re geared more towards like the women in their thirties getting hormonal acne. ’cause they’re, they do have anti-aging products too. ’cause obviously we’re trying to beat acne, but also anti-aging at the same time.

[00:36:31] But they do have a really nice aloe based, um, moisturizer that I like. And then Green Envy has an aloe based moisturizing like face mask that I like. I just really like aloe. I think aloe is the best for acne. Like healing it, calming it down. That makes sense. That’s helpful. Any other, do they have any other cleansers.

[00:36:51] That you like. So I do like the Sara or the, um, clear STEM cleanser that they have. They have like a gel one. Oil cleansers tend to work. It [00:37:00] depends on where you’re at in your acne journey. If you have very inflamed cystic acne oil can sometimes be too much at first kind of using like the cosma one that talking about, or like even a gentle, like gel-based one to just kind of clear up the oil.

[00:37:15] Um, I would start with first and then once your acne gets under control, if you still have sensitive skin, then I feel like you can add in an oil-based cleanser. ’cause your, your skin’s getting more balanced. The more balanced you get, the more you can use an oil based cleanser. And it helps keep that lipid bilayer intact without stripping it.

[00:37:32] But sometimes starting with an oil base just doesn’t work because skin’s just, you know, a wreck. So usually that’s like one you can transition to and people like it. And then the tallow, so tallow is obviously super popular as you mentioned. And it’s great because it mimics our lipid bilayer. It’s got full of fatty acid and vitamins and it’s anti-inflammatory.

[00:37:54] So that’s where a lot of people, um, like wanna purchase it. And, um, it works great for like, sometimes with [00:38:00] eczema or um, highs or skin issues. But the downside of it for your face, it’s not com it’s comedogenic, so it basically clogs your pores. Um, so if you have acne, it doesn’t, it’s very heavy and occlusive, it just kind of sits and traps things in.

[00:38:16] Um, so like for anti-aging, yeah. If you don’t have acne and you wanna put it under your eyes, it’s gonna be super moisturizing and great. ’cause it’s gonna trap. Everything inside. What if you have acne and your skin is literally trying to detox? It makes acne usually worse. And that’s, you know, obviously not one size fits all.

[00:38:31] I’m sure you people have used it and it worked great for them. And maybe it’s just because they literally simplify the routine and they took everything else out and they just used Tao and nothing else. But usually I suggest not to use Talo on acne. At all. It just, it’s too heavy. It just, it’s clogs of pores and um, maybe down the road, once acne’s under control, people can use it.

[00:38:52] But I still would not, like, even though I don’t break out anymore, I’m still feel like I’m acne prone or I feel that way. At least that’s how I am. [00:39:00] Yeah. I feel like it just makes me feel, I’ll get like little bumpies, like I feel like my skin can’t breathe with it. I’ll use it under my eyes. I love it on my body, but I won’t use it on most of my face.

[00:39:08] Yeah, no, I can totally see that. Um, and even what’s interesting, because my skin has been like, it’s been such an evolution, like oil cleansing with. I can’t even remember the girl’s name. Manuka Honey Mass and oil cleansing was how I really started to like improve my acne. ’cause same thing as you. Mine was always really bad, but when I got off the pill, it was so bad.

[00:39:30] It was like painful. I was so embarrassed because I was in like clinical rotations. I’m like trying to look professional and I have like a ful. Acne was awful. I was trying to find pictures from it. I did not take pictures. I hid it. I don’t have any either really. I know. I hid, I hid everything. It was like awful.

[00:39:47] And my husband remembers though, ’cause we were dating then, and he’s like, yeah, it was pretty bad. I’m like, I know. And the oil cleansing and the Manuka honey masks were so helpful, but it’s like, she’s like, only do it once a day. [00:40:00] And then, um, the Manuka honey masks I did probably like a few times a week.

[00:40:03] And that I felt like Manuka honey, like really calmed the inflammation on my skin. But it’s like I, I could oil cleanse every day and like now I cannot oil, I just don’t need it. Like my skin, it’s like too much. Like I feel like it strips my skin a little bit. Um, I used to like use it to take makeup off, but now I’m like, I just use a gentle.

[00:40:24] Gel. Like usually I use the Cosmo one or I just tried this other one, I can’t remember the name, but they’re just like that very gentle cleansing gel that, and I can’t, you know, I can’t use anything else. So I’m like, it’s so funny how your skin changes over time too. Where it’s like, if a product worked for you before and it’s not now, it’s like it could just be you have shifts.

[00:40:42] Any other topical tips for people? I get a lot of questions. I use a red light mask pretty religiously. I get, I’m curious your thoughts on red light, but any, oh, and the, the pimple little stickers. What are those called? There’s like a couple different ones. I mean those are like spot treatment usually, like benzo peroxide [00:41:00] or base, like they kind of dry things out.

[00:41:02] Those can like work for special events, you know what I mean? Like if you know you have something coming up and it’s like the night before, those can work, but they don’t usually take care of it for good. But those are good for like, definitely special events. I do love. So if you wanna do, well talking about like the oil stuff too and the um, honey mask.

[00:41:21] I do suggest like trying to find a way to do exfoliation, but smart exfoliation. So at first, like get some of the inflammation calmed down, order your stool test, like get started there and then you wanna work on exfoliation because as you talked about, like hypothyroid or whatever, other factors are going on.

[00:41:38] Metabolically, our skin turnover slows down with age. So that’s why our babies like their skin’s beautiful because they’re turning over skin cells like every four to seven days As we get older. Um, we’re doing it like every 14 days and every 21 days and every three, two days. And it just, our skin turnover is slower and slower as our metabolism slows down.

[00:41:57] And so that’s also what can create [00:42:00] acne and just like dull skin. So when we exfoliate, that’ll help break down that layer so we can let the skin detox and then also turn over with new skin cells. Um, the problem is, is like that same eyes, like apricot or physical scrubs kind of are abrasive. So finding a good balance between like a gentle acid scrub instead of a physical exfoliator, um, which is similar if you like, go get a facial.

[00:42:24] Usually they’ll do gentle acids or chemical peels. And so when we think of like a gentle acid, I think of like mandelic acid, lactic acid. Sometimes lactic acid can be a little potent for some people, especially if we have like a vitamin eight efficiency or very sensitive skin. Lactic acid can be a little strong.

[00:42:40] Um, but glycolic fruit enzymes, like a lot of the natural masks will have like papaya pineapple in there. Even the apple is from the mandelic acid. So these are nice. Gentle exfoliating masks that you can do like once, like once a week, um, to help kind of clear out the dead skin so the new skin can come in and re prepare [00:43:00] itself.

[00:43:00] So that’s one of the things. And if you, if you have like a good esthetician in your area or like a holistic esthetician, you can see if they suggest any. But that green MV brand I mentioned, um, that’s the one I’ve been using for years. And they have some great gentle, uh, acid masks that you can do once a week that are like very good for acne prone skin.

[00:43:18] So that’s a good way I’ll get those links from you. ’cause I know people are gonna want ’em, but, and I, and I also want it, so Yeah, and I’ve been, like I said, I’ve been using them for like, ever. Um, I’m not like an affiliate with them. I just like have, I’ve been aesthetician that’s been using them for like.

[00:43:31] Six or seven years now and I can’t switch. I’ve tried so many brands and they’re like, I trust them. I can send people home with them and I know they’re not gonna break out from them, which makes me feel good. And then the other thing that I think of like topically, like you mentioned, the little like patches, I think they look like almost like bandaid patches, but simple sulfur.

[00:43:48] So it’s like old school, what people think of, but like good old sulfur spot treatment. Works really, really well because it’s antibacterial and antifungal and it doesn’t disturb the skin barrier as bad as [00:44:00] like benzo peroxide. It’s not as drying. If you use it like all of your face, it could be drying. But if you use it like spot treatment wise, it works really well to kind of dry up a pimple.

[00:44:09] So that’s something I keep on hand always, like a little tube of sulfur. Um, and it doesn’t smell good. I mean, it smells like rotten eggs kind of, but it works really, really well and it can be cheaper than always buying those patches. And, um, that’s like really nice to use. And then the other thing you mentioned, the red light.

[00:44:26] So red light, obviously we love red light, like all over the body, like use it everywhere. But um, for the face it’s great at calming down inflammation and healing the skin. As well as anti-aging. So if you could use like a red light mask, um, throughout, like a couple times a week, that’s beneficial. The prob, some masks too, they’ll have like different lights on it and they’re like, oh, can I use the blue light?

[00:44:47] I’ve heard that’s antibacterial. The problem with that is we don’t want it all over the face because again, it’s our microbiome, so we don’t wanna kill everything. So instead, I usually suggest using, um, a high frequency wand. Have you heard of these before? [00:45:00] I have, yeah. So yeah, a lot of estheticians. It used to be only estheticians could get their hands on them.

[00:45:05] Um, and now you can get anything you know, that you want on Amazon, but, um, you want like a high quality, high frequency wand. And it uses, they have red light too, but they have like a blue light or, um. It could be like blue or purple basically, but it’s antibacterial. So this is good because you can actually like spot treat things.

[00:45:23] Um, so the one has like a glass electro that fills with gas. And when it’s powered on electro current, kind of stimulate it like sounds kinda like a little buzzing noise, like as if you’re in like a mosquito zapper, but it produces tiny amount of ozone and then it actually is good for spot treating. Acne.

[00:45:39] So this is like if someone does have a lot of breakouts, this is one of the other things I’ll usually suggest they invest in, and you can get ’em for like under a hundred bucks. They used to be like hundreds of dollars. But they’re really great for spot treatment and since they help control the bacteria, they keep it from spreading up the lymph system.

[00:45:54] So like if you pop one pimple, it spreads the limp and goes to another place. This really helps kill that bacteria so it could [00:46:00] stop spreading. And that’s like just, I find that one can be really night and day just to get you through your healing journey, you know? And then you have it on hand for like, you know, one-off times when pimples pop up around special occasions once you’re in a better place.

[00:46:12] And I love that you mention that because it doesn’t have to be like this all or nothing approach to the skin, right? It doesn’t have to just be like, oh, we’re just gonna work on the root cause and like have no symptom relief along the way. That’s just not realistic. Especially, I mean, we have a couple ac acne clients that have very severe acne, and it’s like, obviously you’re gonna work on the root causes, but it’s like, well, let’s try to get you some relief on your skin in the meantime.

[00:46:39] I like that approach, that it’s like, Hey, there’s stuff for spot treatment. And also like, how do we keep it from spreading? You know, that like, things like that would, I feel like that’s much more realistic than just like, you know, being like, oh, we’re just gonna work on an internal approach. It’s like, it’s gotta be both and it has to be realistic.

[00:46:57] ’cause it, I mean, acne, it’s like, [00:47:00] I don’t know, it, it’s, I don’t know if debilitating is the right word. I don’t, mine was pretty painful, but it’s like. It just like, can you, everyone can see it. You know, sometimes you have health issues and no one can see them, but it’s like, it’s just so obvious, you know?

[00:47:14] Yeah. And it’s not something you can hide really well. Like if you have stomach issues or like mental health issues, sometimes you can hide those things from people and people don’t even know they’re going on. But when you have, I mean, makeup doesn’t even do a good job nowadays for most acne to like, and obviously then you put makeup on it, it makes your acne worse.

[00:47:30] So a lot of people don’t even wanna put acne on or makeup on their acne, but it is, it’s very, um, time consuming. Like it takes over your life when you have skin breakouts. And I think sometimes, like we can try and do it all ourselves, but sometimes asking for help and having somebody out, like on the outside help you figure it out is just really great because it’s, it can be hard to do it on your own and just, it sucks.

[00:47:52] Heavy acne is not fun. I know. It’s, it is absolutely not. And I can’t believe, I’ve never tried the light wand. I think maybe that wasn’t really big [00:48:00] when I was like in the thick of it. ’cause that was like over. 10 years ago, but still very, very cool. And I’m gonna link the red light mask that I like. I get, I have the one from, it’s, I’m so bad.

[00:48:12] It’s like they changed their name and I still call them their old name. That’s okay. I don’t, I’m horrible with names too. So they used to be blue blocks, but now I literally talk to them all the time ’cause they’re like the best. Second, I’m looking at the, my website on charge. That’s, that’s the one I have.

[00:48:28] I will say it does have an infrared or a near infrared option. And you, I would, I don’t know what your thoughts are on that for acne, but I am the most freckly person ever, and I can’t, it, I can’t, I, I love how it feels, but I don’t use that one on my face because I just do the red light from there because it makes me even more freckly.

[00:48:53] So I don’t know if you get like really hot with the infrared setting on, it gets warm, but it’s not like [00:49:00] that. It’s not that crazy. And I only wear it for 10 minutes. That’s the other thing. I don’t know if you’ve seen this. With different red light masks and I think red light therapy in general, but you have to see what helps your skin.

[00:49:10] Like for me, if I do too much red light, it’s actually not helpful for my skin. So if I do like 10 minutes, two or three times a week, it’s perfect. And I notice like a difference mostly. I mean I don’t really have acne at this point, but like aging and stuff and just like I think cell turnover for sure and like dullness and everything.

[00:49:29] But I’m curious, is the near infrared good for acne? I would suggest? No. The only thing with the ’cause with infrared it, our goal of that sometimes is to pull more toxins. Sometimes is you think about it, it’s like really moving the li and while we wanna help our limb systems, sometimes we don’t want to overstimulate it in the face because it’s such a small area that sometimes we can’t clear it that quickly.

[00:49:51] So it could create more breakouts if things aren’t under control. I think if you’re in a better place, you could use it. But if you have like a full face. [00:50:00] You know, with breakouts, I would just use the red light. I wouldn’t use the infrared. Do you like having people do like facial lymphatic massage stuff?

[00:50:10] If they have acne? So if someone has acne, like if they came in for facials, I usually do it. But after I’m done I will do the spot treatment with the high frequency to try and make sure we’re not spreading anything. Okay. Interesting. So the goal with that is like really learning what you’re doing, um, not just like kind of playing around with it because you could create more harm than good.

[00:50:32] I think. Um, the length is such a delicate area of the body, you know what I mean? We have it all over our body, but I think it’s becoming so commercialized, the lymph system, and we’re trying to like. Handle it ourselves when it’s a very powerful system that, you know, can like cleanse and detox on its own.

[00:50:49] So I do think like face massages are great. I love, that’s like my favorite part of facials. Giving them and getting that is the face massage. But I would like pair that with some sort of, whether [00:51:00] blue light or um, like acne treatment to make sure, you know, and of course that’s where gut health comes in.

[00:51:06] Like if you have a binder or something, once you’ve done a face massage, like something in place afterwards to help with the toxins you’ve moved. Cool. And I’m gonna link to my Leah from Lymph Love Club. She’s been on the podcast. I need to have her on again soon. And she has, I learned all my lymph massage stuff from her.

[00:51:24] She is so smart. She’s the best. I, she has just a face course now, so I, that’s the one I do the most consistently. And ’cause you know, we start from up here, it’s like you should start with your face before you do any other lymph stuff anyway. So, um, I will put the link to her. If you’re like wanting to learn how to do it correctly, and then you can pair that with some sort of topical acne type treatment.

[00:51:49] But if you’re like, oh, I’m curious, but like I’m nervous, don’t go down rabbit holes. I’ll send you, you can, I’ll put her Instagram there too. She has so much free information online, but her courses are [00:52:00] amazing too, so I’ll put that. Yeah, she’s a wealth of information about limp and like I said, that she’s, you wanna learn it the right way too, so that’s why.

[00:52:07] Exactly. Because you want it to be supportive. You don’t want it to make more chaos in your body. Totally. Okay, let’s finish up with supporting the liver. So, you know, we’ve covered gut, we’ve covered the skin barrier. Like short-term topical treatments, things that people can do, how to simplify. Hopefully people feel better ’cause we’re telling them to do less and not more for their skin.

[00:52:28] We covered the cilium husk. What is it with the liver? How does it ha play a role in like gut hormone? Literally everything we’ve been talking about. And then what are some signs that. People might need some support with their liver when it comes to their acne. Yeah, so our liver is like our detox hub. So the liver processes and eliminates toxins, hormones, um, metabolic waste through phase one detox and phase two detox.

[00:52:53] So if you’ve listened to any health podcast, you’ve probably heard about phase one and phase two talk. Phase two detox [00:53:00] before. Basically in phase one, enzymes transform toxins into, um, intermediate compounds. So sometimes they can be more reactive at this phase. And then as we get into phase two detox, we do more conjugation, which is like via methylation, sulfation glucoronidation, which is for that beta glucuronidase from the stool test comes into play and glutathione.

[00:53:20] So we make these kind pounds water soluble in that phase two detox. So they can actually be excreted in bile, which again, I love bile. So we’re gonna dive probably a little bit deeper into bile or urine. And so if detox is sluggish, um, these intermediates are excess hormones can basically recirculate longer contributing to acne inflammation.

[00:53:39] So while we support gut health to help reduce inflammation, also need to support our liver. ’cause our liver is what is basically packaging up these toxic toxins and excreting them through urine or stool. ’cause the bile is what. Eventually ends up in our stool with those toxins and some signs that we might, our liver might need some support when it comes to acne.[00:54:00]

[00:54:00] So if your acne pattern is linked to, like hormonal changes within your cycle, so if it flares around that ovulation or menstruation like we talked about, um, those could be clear signs that you’re having sluggish clearance of those hormones. ’cause naturally your hormones are gonna rise like the ebb and flow throughout our cycle, and that’s what we want them to do.

[00:54:15] But the liver needs to be able to handle those hormones as they do that persistent acne despite having a pretty healthy diet and clean skincare routine. So, you know, if you’re not eating McDonald’s every day and wearing, you know, um, cheat makeup and you’re taking care of yourself and you’re not, you know, nothing’s moving the needle on your acne, then we probably need to take a look at the liver a little bit closer.

[00:54:36] Coexisting skin issues is pretty huge. Usually if someone has acne, there’s also, they have a history of maybe eczema or rosacea or random hives, like they’re pretty histamine. They’re reacting to histamines. Um, digestive issues, obviously, bloating, constipation, gas, loose stools, constipation for sure. I think we hear this one a lot.

[00:54:55] People are like, oh, I don’t have digestive issues. And I’m like, okay, how often are you, you know, [00:55:00] having bowel movements? And they’re like, a couple times a week. I’m like, that’s digestive issues, you know, even though it’s not related to diarrhea or gas. You know, going to the bathroom every few, few times a week is constipation.

[00:55:10] That’s a huge red flag for liver. Liver support. And then histamine sensitivity, which kind of goes back to that eczema. Random of hives, but histamine sensitivity after like certain foods. So flushing skin. Rashes, headaches, science, congestion, nausea, um, those are also like huge signs. Livers kind of overburdened and can’t handle things, so we need to support it for sure.

[00:55:33] And I had asthma growing up and I didn’t make this connection until I was older that I had asthma and really bad acne. So I, there was definitely a gut component to mine. Obviously I took antibiotics and it helped my skin so it, it didn’t go away completely with the antibiotics, but it did make a difference.

[00:55:49] And, but I, but it’s like I grew up with asthma, which is a huge sign of like a histamine issue. And I think that’s another one that doesn’t get talked about enough. And it’s like, well, what’s at the root [00:56:00] of histamine issues? Liver, like you mentioned, it’s a sign that we’re not clearing them well. Right. But also gut health.

[00:56:07] Our immune system function. So the, it really all goes together. And you mentioned the constipation, which I, whenever I see that I’m like, bile, right? Bile is so important. So can we talk like what is bile? Where is it made? And you know, how does that, how does the liver impact it? Because I think that’s something that doesn’t really get talked about enough.

[00:56:27] Yeah, so the bile, which is why the first thing we talked about was cilium husk. ’cause I’m pretty obsessed with supporting bile. But bile is basically our carrier for, it binds to our toxins and we expre it through stools. So if we’re constipated and the gallbladder is making this bile, if the bile is not being secreted and ideally, you know, our, it fills up and then we make a nice big bile dump.

[00:56:50] All the toxins are bound to it. It goes through our digestive system and leaves through our stool. If we’re not having regular bowel movements and regular, um, bile dumps, then those are recirculating. [00:57:00] So all of that excess estrogen’s recirculating any toxins that we’re exposed to, which no matter how clean of a lifestyle you live, you’re still exposed to toxins nowadays.

[00:57:09] We obviously try to, you know, mitigate them where we can, but, and then if that bile is not being excreted, you are going to keep recirculating all those toxins. And so constipation is usually a bile issue. Histamines can usually be a bile issue. Loose stools can be a bile issue. So that’s where trying to get those things packaged up appropriately and excreted.

[00:57:30] Uh, like via cilium husk, uh, or soluble fiber is like really ideal for, um, liver support and for acne support. Do you like anything else for bile support? I know there’s so many herbs and like, things people could possibly do. Yeah, depending on the person too. I mean, we love digestive bitters in practice, obviously.

[00:57:47] Um, I don’t really find, I find most people do well with bitters. There’s different brands, um, sometimes histamine clients. Don’t work as well, depending on what herbs are in there. So we usually have to like [00:58:00] trial and error, but bitters are a great way. And then of course like, uh, I like doing anything like bitter food.

[00:58:05] So arugula I find most people can get arugula in, um, you know, sprinkle in with a salad or a side, but that’s something that’s great for bile flow, obviously minerals, which you know, that’s like our hub. We always start there first. So minerals is obviously gonna help as well. But I always think like bitters, um, arugula, the cilium husk.

[00:58:26] I’m trying to think what else is like big ones like milk, the and dandelion root are liver supports. Obviously they also help with bile, but those are like my main ones. I tell people like every day try to think of having like two to three things that are gonna support your bile. So whether that’s like you have eggs and you have some arugula on the side, or you’re having your bitters with each meal, you’re having your cilium husk in the evening.

[00:58:46] You just try and be focused so much on like macro minerals. And macronutrients, but sometimes just focusing on like the fiber and those bile supports too are things we need to like think about and kind of schedule into our meal plans too, to make sure we’re getting them in [00:59:00] for our liver. I also really like choline.

[00:59:02] I would think of bile so much for pregnancy too, because it’s such an issue for, so like constipation, obviously constipation can be from other things like minerals, nervous system stress, gut bacteria, but I’ve never seen a person, especially a woman that’s pregnant and struggling with acne that didn’t benefit.

[00:59:23] From some additional bile support. And so like, co I’ll usually do a little more choline. Um, I, I do like milk thistle and dandelion a lot too ’cause they’re safe during pregnancy as well. And they’ll support her bile. Uh, what about Tuka? Do you use Tuka a lot? I use tuka. I find people u like, uh, FoST choline.

[00:59:42] I find people do better with it or tolerate it better than tka. TKA definitely works ’cause it like thins out the bile acids, but I find like it’s something people can be in a really good place. Sometimes with tka it’s like a hit or miss. Sometimes it can like be too potent and then they’re really dumping bile and I, whereas I find like PC is like a little bit [01:00:00] more gentle depending on how sensitive the person is too.

[01:00:02] You know what I mean? But I do think like TKA is good. Um, even like NAC is, those are kind of some NAC C is one of those supplements too. If you’re looking for acne support, sometimes if you Google it and you’re looking for holistic support, they’ll suggest some NAC to help with glutathione, precursor for glutathione for the liver.

[01:00:18] So that is another one that sometimes you can add in. It’s sulfur based though. So if we have, this is where the stool test comes in, we can see if someone might be having some trouble with sulfur, um, because if they’re not tolerating sulfur well or. Space to detox, then sometimes they don’t handle NAC as well.

[01:00:33] Yeah. And it’s funny ’cause when I think of minerals and bile, I think of molybdenum. Yeah. Oh yeah. That’s also really important for sulfur detoxification. So molybdenum like, that’s when, you know, we don’t ever do stool testing without hair testing because it doesn’t, like you can’t work on your gut health without addressing your mineral health.

[01:00:54] You can work on your minerals without your gut, but not vice versa. And that is one where it’s like, we’ll just [01:01:00] refer to their hair test and see like, how are their molybdenum levels? Is this appropriate? And then I, one that comes up, uh, I recently did like a little. Blurb on this on Instagram was manganese and how it’s really important for estrogen detox it, which also can affect bile, of course.

[01:01:17] Like if you’re estrogen dominant, it thickens up your bile, right? So that’s an, yeah, that’s another piece. And that’s why some people that are super estrogen dominant do amazing with TKA because it thins out the bile. So there’s it. It’s definitely like, I think it can be frustrating. ’cause when people will try things for their bile, they’re like, I had a terrible reaction, or it didn’t work for me.

[01:01:39] And it’s like, well, they all kind of do different things. For the bile, is it thinning it out and making it easier get rid of, or is it helping actual, like the ejection. Of the bile, you know, like all that sort of thing. So it’s like it takes some experimentation with this stuff to see like what’s moving the needle for you.

[01:01:56] But bile support is huge and I always think we get rid of excess [01:02:00] copper in the bile. Copper is one on the hair old. Yeah. On those hair tests with acne. Copper is all, I mean, and I’ve never seen copper like not be an issue, honestly, on a hair test with acne clients, it’s always usually a big red flag. Mine was like through the roof on the first.

[01:02:14] Oh. So was mine that I ever did. Okay. I’m trying to think. Anything else that we missed? For liver. I think the only thing is like if you’re talking about like nutrition and diet too, this is where sometimes working with a practitioner, like playing around with food timing. ’cause if we’re trying to help with bile sometimes, um, meal timing might be different.

[01:02:33] So if you’re used to doing small meals, sometimes we’ll suggest like, Hey, let’s do three big meals a day so we can really get bile to fill up and get a nice dump. Because sometimes if it’s just always being secreted, we’re not getting, um, like a nice strong contraction and dump to actually like get rid of all the toxins we need.

[01:02:49] So sometimes switching meal timing and density too can make a big difference in liver support. And I always think that can be really helpful for blood sugar for a lot of people too. ’cause then it, I, [01:03:00] the conversation comes up like, what if someone, I have a lot of women that think that they’re, they only have acne from insulin resistance and like androgens, uh, or estrogen dominance.

[01:03:11] And it’s like it. Yes, that can be a huge part of the picture. But then before insulin resistance is leptin resistance, and your gut microbiome definitely affects the leptin levels in the body. That’s our satiety hormone. I’ve talked about that like 80,000 times I feel like on here. But, um, that’s like a huge piece of the puzzle too.

[01:03:32] And then if you’re eating constantly, it can make you more leptin resistant, like snacky meals, you know, that it, it can just make it difficult for that timing and that satiety feeling. So that’s why it’s like, that can also, yes, it can help with the bile dumping and things like that, but it could, but if you think that, if you’re kind of like, I think I’ve got issues, but I also am like very worried about my metabolism and possibly insulin resistance, that it could play a huge role and potentially help [01:04:00] there too.

[01:04:00] Totally. Okay, so we’ve talked about the gut, we’ve talked about cilium husk, we went all through the skin berry stuff. I’m gonna put links. In the show notes, you guys, there’s probably gonna be like a million links for this episode and we got into liver bile support. I feel like I’m not gonna put links for all the supplements that, you know, that I, we didn’t really discuss a ton of brands or anything.

[01:04:24] But ultimately what are, if, what are, like, if, if you were someone were coming to you and they’re like, okay, what is like the one thing I should do? I’ve listened to the episode. I, it was a lot of information, but I’m really struggling with my acne. What is like one thing that I can take away? What, what’s the first thing you would have someone do?

[01:04:44] I mean, if we’re talking like budget friendly, I would just stop, take like, stop spending money on all the supplements and skincare products and just simplify your skincare routine first. Like just get a gentle cleanser and a gentle moisturizer or allo based [01:05:00] moisturizer. Even just like one of the simple oils, like you mentioned Cosma, she has a couple of just like the simple oil serums, just like a one ingredient type thing.

[01:05:07] Like the squalane. Yes. I love the squabbling and sometimes even just like I know grape seed oil gets a bad wrap sometimes with skincare and um, like. Poly saturated fast, but even just like a grape seed oil, like an organic one. Just something simple to hydrate your skin in a lipid violator and then just leave it at that.

[01:05:24] Like just keep a simple skincare routine and start there and see if you can calm your skin down and then, you know, invest in further things. Yeah, and I’ve even had a lot of women just do hair testing. ’cause obviously like you, sometimes you have to do more testing. I’ve had so many clients and women in my course just do a hair test and get huge results with that.

[01:05:45] And then if they do go to do a stool test, they can actually tolerate a gut protocol. ’cause I think that’s the other thing is a lot of times we wanna skip right to the gut stuff. And if you don’t have a solid foundation, you may not, like if you’re histamine, [01:06:00] you may not even tolerate the supplements.

[01:06:02] Ultimately it’s like you, your liver’s gotta be able to handle that. You’ve gotta have your detox pathways supported to try to get rid of stuff in your gut. So it’s hard, most of us like want your skin cleared years ago, but if you do it the right way, then you can get rid of acne forever versus just like, you know, I’ve seen people, like they did a gut protocol and then as soon as they stopped all supplements, the acne comes back.

[01:06:26] Yeah. Because you will feel better. Like your skin usually will clear up. ’cause they, you know, the gut eradication portion is usually antimicrobial, so it can clear your skin, but if your liver’s not functioning and your digestion’s not working, like we’re not pooping regularly, then the gut protocol itself isn’t gonna work long term.

[01:06:41] Yeah. So if you’re kind of like, I don’t know where to start. I can’t necessarily work 1 0 1. You could definitely consider the master minerals course. I think it’s a hundred percent worth it. We’re also adding a skin track. With Colleen in the future. It’s not in there yet, but it is on our list to add because I’m like, man, I like the, [01:07:00] it does make a huge difference, but it’s helpful again to have like all this kind of information curated for you.

[01:07:05] So that’s. Our plan. But if you found this podcast episode helpful, it would mean the world to me if you left me a review. That’s what really helps more women discover the podcast, get the message, and hopefully feel empowered on their healing journey. That’s really my goal, and if you wanna go deeper and stay in the loop with everything, make sure you’re on my newsletter.

[01:07:26] It’s Feminine Periodical. You can subscribe in the show notes. Goes out every Sunday at 6:00 PM Eastern time. I share lots of tips, tools, behind the scenes things, and I’m always covering a different topic, like very in depth. You can find a link in the show notes. So that is it. Thank you so much for being here, Colleen, and sharing your wealth of knowledge on all things acne, and we’ll see you in the next episode.[01:07:48] Thanks for having me.

S8 E05: Understanding & Fixing The Root Cause of Acne | Colleen Clesen

Amanda Montalvo

Amanda Montalvo is a women's health dietitian who helps women find the root cause of hormone imbalances and regain healthy menstrual cycles.

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